Georgia Dentel and Grinnell Concerts History, 1960-2001 - Interviews

There‚ that’s it‚ it’s recording. Yep‚ there you go.

Maya Albanese: Thank you! Okay‚ this is my 1st interview I'm sure you can tell.

Kit Wall: No‚ I can’t! No problem. Hey‚ they're all different‚ it's all different‚ not to worry.

Maya Albanese: Cool. Okay‚ I'm gonna do the formal introduction.

Kit Wall: Yes. Okay‚ sure. Yeah.

Maya Albanese: The following interview was conducted with Kit Wall on behalf of the Georgia Dentel summer MAP for Grinnell concerts‚ Georgia Dentel and Student Life in History and Memory project. It took place on July 26th 2024 on Webex. The interviewer is me‚ Maya Albanese‚ and the note taker is Bowen Wei. First‚ I just want to confirm that you have signed the legal release and give your consent for this interview.

Kit Wall: Yes‚ I have.

Maya Albanese: Perfect. Alrighty. We'll just start things off. Can you just introduce yourself‚ your class year and I guess where you live now? 9

Kit Wall: Okay‚ I am Kit Wall‚ class of 77‚ 1977‚ and I'm always listed as Katherine Wall‚ but NO one will ever know who that is. So it's Kit K I T Wall. And‚ I live now in Benicia California‚ which is in the San Francisco Bay Area. So I'm about 35 miles west. No. Wrong. 35 miles east of San Francisco‚ about 60 miles west of Sacramento‚ just down the street on interstate 80.

So‚ when I come to visit I leave on one end of 80 and then I get to Des Moines on another end of 80‚ so.

Maya Albanese: Oh wow‚ you drive here when you visit?

Kit Wall: No‚ but the the airports‚ I mean it's funny‚ like‚ you know‚ you're flying from one end of 80 to another‚ right? I mean when I get to Grinnell‚ I mean‚ it's 80. And when I leave Grinnell I'm going west‚ which is where I'm flying‚ so when I get to Des Moines or Cedar Rapids‚ I’m flying west. So it just kind of makes me smile. I live on 80‚ just further west.

Maya Albanese: Cool. Awesome. So how did you decide to come to Grinnell College?

Kit Wall: Well‚ the funny thing is‚ and you mentioned in here [the list of questions which I sent to Kit] Pat Irwin‚ we were both in high school together and that is exactly how I got to Grinnell. And Pat called me he had been to Grinnell for a student visit and they had put him up in Grinnell house. And he and I were really good friends‚ and he said‚ I really think you ought to check out Grinnell college. And so I said‚ “well‚ do they have journalism?” And he said‚ “Well‚ no‚ they don't really have a journalism major‚ but everything you do is a written assignment‚ so you really learn to write‚ if you can write well‚ you can think well” and he said “and they have a lot of independent study‚ and so I think you would really like that. So you should check it out.” I was like‚ “ok‚ you know‚ I'll keep it in mind.” And so I was applying to other schools. And I had visited a lot of the other schools that I was applying to‚ and the one I applied to and was accepted to‚ which would have been my next stop would have been Knox College. But one weekend‚ it was a beautiful spring weekend‚ and in those days‚ you know‚ life wasn't as scary and so my parents would give me the car for the weekend and say‚ “well‚ you know‚ go ahead‚ go visit Oberlin and‚ go‚ you know‚ whatever you want to do.” So one of my good friends‚ I said‚ “you know‚ are you doing anything this weekend?” and she said‚ “No‚” and I I said‚ “how would you like to go on a road trip to Grinnell Iowa?” Because‚ you know‚ Pat told me it was good. They would put us up in Grinnell house. It's a beautiful weekend. Why don't we go?

And my parents will give me the card. She's like‚ ok‚ let's go. And I mean‚ it was not at all a place Patty would probably have even wanted to go‚ but she was a good friend‚ she said‚ “yeah‚ let's go.” So I had an interview and I said “I'm probably gonna have to go‚ you know‚ sit in on some classes and stuff and I'll have an interview‚” and she was like‚ “yeah‚ that's fine.”

So I had an interview and I really liked it. It was a Grinnell alum‚ who I since got to know better‚ but‚ so he wasn't too far away from being a student‚ and so had a great interview‚ went to a philosophy class‚ which was kind of my orientation then. And‚ different times‚ you know‚ like the legal age for drinking in Iowa was 18. So it's a whole different time.

So anyway‚ they said‚ well‚ we're gonna have‚ we're gonna have an off campus party. You might really want to go to that and whatever. And so I went to the class‚ I was just walking around on campus‚ which has such a great vibe‚ and then went to the party and we had a blast. We were probably there for two days‚ and I don't know‚ somewhere in there‚ you know‚ I just went‚ I gotta go here. I mean‚ this is it. I gotta go here and I didn't have a lot of time‚ it was spring and‚ you know‚ early admission and whatever‚ so.

I mean I applied‚ got in‚ got accepted‚ and never visited Knox‚ which is ironic because two of my really good friends graduated from Knox that live in Cedar Rapids now. I've met them in later life‚ because my friend Linda's an elected official‚ she's retired now‚ but was a county supervisor.

And‚ they would have been at Knox‚ it would have been like a year or two ahead of me‚ so I would have known them. So it's just kind of funny. But anyway‚ that's really how I got to Grinnell. And then Pat and I literally packed up my parents' station wagon. I picked up his stuff. I had my stuff already in it and you know a big station wagon then‚ right? You know‚ kind of like an SUV now. But lower to the ground.

And‚ so‚ I can still see Pat's mom waving goodbye and she still talks to him about that. And‚ and so we drove to Grinnell and like a lot of people right‚ had parents dropping them off and stuff and we just drove‚ we unpacked‚ we were there and he was on south campus‚

I was on north campus‚ there was no east campus. And then my dad flew into Des Moines later that week and picked up the car and drove home to Chicago where we both lived. So‚ you know‚ I mean‚ that's literally how I got Grinnell too. But that was it‚ kinda. Yeah.

The other thing I think‚ the other thing that might be important is that‚ I had gone to‚ I grew up in southern California I was born in California and I grew up in Fullerton in Orange County‚ and I went to a Catholic school like where 1st to 8th grade was probably 900 students.

And so we got transferred when I was in 7th grade‚ so I did 8th‚ 9th‚ and 10th grade in a junior high in Houston. It was a public school and had just those three grades‚ 2400 students. It was a massive shock.

And then I went to a high school with about that many students and‚ and went there for freshman and sophomore year‚ and then we were transferred again to the Chicago suburbs‚ so my last two years of high school were also in a high school with about 2500 people.

And so by the time‚ you know‚ I had moved that far along I probably would have gone to USC film school I think or maybe Santa Cruz. And then we moved to Texas‚ so my dad went to University of Texas. I liked Austin. There was a lot of stuff there. I thought‚ you know‚ it would be great. And then‚ you know‚ you didn't

fly around so much. You kind of wanted to be a little closer‚ and‚ so then we moved again and and it was like‚ there's NO way in hell I'm going to the University of Illinois or any of those big schools. I'm done with all that. I'm tired of being a number‚ and so I was really looking at smaller sized schools‚ and I also really thought it would be cool. I liked Grinnell as a town and I thought‚ you know‚ I'd love

to be in a small town where the college is the thing. I don't want to be in a commuter school. I want to have an on campus experience. So I think I was really fortunate I completely lucked out by finding Grinnell.

Maya Albanese: Yeah. Perfect fit for a lot of people‚ I think.

Kit Wall: I think so. Yeah‚ I think so.

Maya Albanese: So yeah‚ you were really good friends with Pat Irwin and you guys went to the same high school. Can you talk more about your friendship? Like‚ how did you guys meet?

Kit Wall: You know‚ that's a good question‚ probably in a class‚ you know‚ we probably were in accelerated something or other‚ you know‚ I don't know. And that is an interesting question because‚ and I wonder if Pat will know‚ you know‚ in his interview. I don't really remember how we met‚ but we both had a music affinity. So‚ and plus in Texas when‚ you know‚ by the time you turn 16‚ everybody has a driver's license‚ and where I went to school

a great many of people‚ their parents bought them a car. Like‚ “oh‚ you're 16‚ here's a car.” My dad was not one of those people. So‚ but when I moved to Chicago‚ it wasn't that way at all. And it was the same type of suburb‚ you know? I mean economically about the same good school blah‚ blah‚ you know.

So I mean‚ it's not like they couldn't have afforded two cars if they wanted‚ but that just wasn't their thing. And‚ and they had kind of more of a‚ everybody get a job work ethic. And so the fact that I already had a license‚ and my parents would let me use the car‚ I mean that was kind of a big deal. It's probably good as a new person because it was like‚ “oh good‚ Kit can drive.”

So Pat and I used to go into the city and see concerts and we would go‚ you know‚ it was the seventies‚ so it was a cool time for music. I mean the sixties had kind of happened.

And so‚ bands like the Grateful Dead. I mean you kind of had sort of a folky bag and that stuff was considered rock and roll‚ which now is either Americana or country which is kind of funny‚ but‚ but anyway‚

so we would just go to concerts and‚ and I had a car. And so‚ I mean‚ we just‚ that's kind of what we did and we were good friends‚ and I had some other friends who went to private school. There was a project at our high school called The Joint‚ which is also a funny name

when you think about it now‚ but‚ and exactly had that connotation also‚ but‚ but it was‚ it was a group of people that before I got there and it just happened to be in my neighborhood where I moved‚ but would raise money and do concerts and stuff to do kind of a youth drop in center hang kind of place. And we eventually ended up with the money we had raised donating it to the local YMCA‚ which was

also very trendy now‚ very‚ you know‚ suburban workout kind of hang. But anyway‚ I met a lot of people that way too. And then concerts were part of the fundraising thing‚ so the private school kids that I met‚ and a couple of them were musicians.

And so then‚ you know‚ I introduced them to Pat. I‚ you know‚ I just kind of don't know how that all really happened‚ but‚ you know‚ so music was kind of always the thing that brought us together anyway‚ which was kind of fun. And then you would‚ you know‚ you would have like vinyl‚ you know‚ and like stereos with

big speakers. And so‚ you know‚ I would invite people over. I had like a big room that I kind of set up like a sitting room and stuff‚ and so people would come over to the house Pat was one of them and we just‚ you just sit and play albums‚ you know‚ all day and just play music and talk about it‚ you know‚ it's just such a different thing. I mean you know‚ now‚

like it's like I “like” that on Spotify. You know‚ so different. So it's like a thing‚ you know‚ to go over and sit and listen‚ “you want to come over and listen to music?” “Oh‚ that'd be great.” So anyway.

So‚ we did a lot of that‚ so it was always a kind of a music based thing‚ so it's cool that he turned out doing‚ you know‚ what he does‚ which doesn't surprise me at all. And

kind of‚ you know‚ I mean‚ I I went through that whole‚ that rock and roll phase of my career. I mean sports‚ entertainment‚ band management‚ you know media production and a lot of stuff like that. So‚ I was like the background part of‚ you know‚ the foreground of what Pat does. So‚ so even as

we continued in our careers like he‚ he was in a band called the Raybeats and they came to Houston and so I could promote them and you know‚ I mean‚ it was just kind of cool. It was just kind of a‚ kind of a cool time.

Maya Albanese: Yeah‚ that's all really lovely and you guys had such a long lasting friendship too‚ which is awesome. Yeah.

Kit Wall: Yeah‚ it’s really nice‚ yeah.

Yeah‚ I'm lucky. So I finally got him to go to my‚ high school reunion last year‚ which usually happened about the same time that Grinnell would have one‚ so I'm not as good about that as I have been about Grinnell ones‚ but‚ but Pat really had a good time and and he said “maybe I'll come to the next Grinnell reunion!” And I said “good plan! Yeah!”

Maya Albanese: Awesome. Cool! So at Grinnell‚ you were involved in the American studies SEPC as well as athletics. So in both of these areas‚ what was your experience?

Kit Wall: Well‚ you know‚ the SEPC part‚ I don't think it was‚ I bet it's a lot more robust now than it was then. I mean‚ I think it was kind of fledgling really‚ because again‚ we were the seventies coming out of the‚ you know‚ turbulent

Sixties and as you know‚ probably Grinnell was a moratorium school‚ so it shut down‚ you know‚ during the Vietnam war and there were marches in the streets and‚ you know‚ you‚ maybe you've heard Crosby‚ Stills‚ and Nash’s song “Four Dead in Ohio”‚ but that was a May 4th protest where the national guard shot four student protesters‚ so.

Grinnell used to always put on May 4th - put up four crosses on central campus for those students and stuff. So that was kind of a pretty fresh in the mind time‚ but in a way‚ probably every generation after thinks‚ oh‚ well‚ you know‚ we're just the boring group of people. I mean‚ I don't know‚ but I kind of felt like we were like the sixties was like all of this stuff and so we're the seventies and it's like “you know yeah we have coed dorms now and you know” like that stuff. So I think the fact that students were coming officially involved was sort of new-ish. And largely

because of the black students. And then at that time‚ I mean because it was CBS‚ Concerned Black Students‚ it was Black Studies. So‚ and then we later went through the phase of African American and then‚ you know‚ I think a lot of people

now‚ mixed race people are fine being Black‚ you know‚ I mean it's however people or..what always has been hard for me because I remember‚ you know‚ being born in 1955. So‚ in the sixties I’d still hear people talk about “colored people.”

So when people say now‚ which is perfectly acceptable‚ “people of color‚” “persons of color‚” it's still really hard for me. It's like‚ why are we like relating to a skin issue? You know‚ Martin Luther King‚ you know‚ that when‚ “when character will not be judged‚ my children will not be judged by the color of their skin

but by their character” and so I think why do people want to be persons of color? But anyway‚ that shows my generational bias. So‚ the black students at Grinnell were really‚ really active prior to me getting there and had taken over the library.

There were some things like that‚ still fresh in professors minds. Concerned Black Students was kind of new-ish again‚ like the idea that students would really‚ you know‚

I don't know if “demand” is the right word‚ but maybe? That‚ you know‚ would advocate to really run things was new-ish. So the Policy Committee‚ I bet now has a lot more input than we did.

And one thing that struck me - I hadn't thought about it for a while - I liked it though‚ I mean it was very interesting. And then we‚ you know‚ did a professor's interview. They were considering at the time of full time professor and

so we interviewed and fortunately one of the people I voted for‚ you know‚ she was hired and so that was all cool. But one of the things that struck me is really funny‚ and you might have run across his name if you're doing history and oral history. Al Jones was‚

think‚ officially in the English department‚ but was one of the American Studies professors. Great guy. History of Grinnell‚ really great history of Grinnell‚ and he was funny‚ but he was from Yale. So we'd be in the American

you know‚ Studies Curriculum Committee meeting. And we were talking about how we were gonna start what the coursework was gonna be for the fall or something. So I'm listening‚ you know‚ and “we're gonna start with‚ you know‚ blah blah blah east coast‚ Am. Civ. One yada yada...”

And so I just sat there and I‚ and I just said‚ “you know‚ can I ask a question? I mean‚ why do we always have to start with the pilgrims? I mean like NOTHING happened before them? And let's face it. I mean these people couldn't make it in their own countries. They were running away‚ they were kind of losers‚ some of them were criminals. I mean‚ I don't know. We always start with the east coast‚ you know? I mean‚ like

we had Indigenous people here‚ we had Spanish people in Florida‚ we had Spanish people in California and probably Texas. We had Russians up on the northern part of the California coast. I mean‚ can't we start somewhere else? It's so tiresome.” And I just remember Al looking at me and he goes‚ “yeah‚ but you're from California‚ so‚” you know‚ kind of like‚ “thank you for sharing. So we're gonna start with the Pilgrims” and I'm just like‚ God‚ give me a break!

So I just remembered that and I had totally forgotten it until today and I just thought‚ “yeah‚ well‚ whatever!”

So‚ you know‚ a different time‚ a different time. And‚ you know‚ that's what you get for being from California. You know that that New Yorker map still plays‚ like it's New York City‚ Appalachians‚ everywhere else. You know‚ it's pretty much how I felt.

So anyway‚ that‚ I mean‚ that's kind of my frame of reference with that. I mean‚ I can't remember how active I was‚ so that's why you found out that I was even quoted about that in that article‚ that would be sort of interesting to me. I was like‚ “wow‚

I wonder how I shot my mouth off there. I'm not sure!” The athletics at Grinnell‚ that was kind of interesting because…you probably ran across some of the discussion about Title IX.

Maya Albanese: Mmhm.

Kit Wall: Title IX‚ you know‚ was just starting to happen‚ just starting to roll out. So‚ neither one of my high schools‚ they did not have any girls teams. I mean‚ you know‚ you would play in PE. In fact‚ I remember playing field hockey…well‚ now what's interesting is in California‚ if I'd stayed in California and stayed in like the Catholic school system‚ they had what they called CYO Catholic Youth Organizations. So there were always teams

for elementary level teams or high school teams‚ very interesting. But when I got into public school‚ both places that I lived - both really good at school districts - nothing. And so‚ but they had‚ you know‚ massive PE‚ like we would do gymnastics and we would do‚ you know‚ dancing and we…and I remember

we did field hockey in Houston and I thought‚ “What is this? What kind of weird contrived sport is this? Who plays this‚ you know?” And‚ and then as I think I moved to Illinois‚ I realized kind of like‚ “oh‚ it's an actual sport. Oh‚ it's an Olympic sport that men play in other parts of the world. Interesting.” You know‚ same sort of like with wrestling and stuff‚ you know‚ so.

So‚ but anyway‚ there were NO girls interscholastic athletics‚ at least in either of my high schools. And in my Illinois high school‚ I remember one girl who‚ you know‚ was really great at tennis played good country club tennis. And so she was on the boys team‚ Pat Irwin was on boys tennis‚ but there was NO girls tennis‚ so.

Yeah‚ it just didn't occur to you‚ it didn't have it. So when I got to Grinnell‚ it was great because there were intramural sports‚ so my freshman year I played intramural‚ probably football. Maybe we had basketball‚ I don't know‚ but I played football for sure‚ flag football‚ which was fun.

And then my sophomore year‚ I realized like‚ hey‚ I could probably‚ you know‚ try out for tennis! I mean‚ I might be good enough to make the team and I was good enough to make the team! I mean‚ I would say was good enough to play in a tournament‚ but I was

at best seated like 4th or 5th‚ but for doubles maybe would have been paired with somebody‚ probably not number one‚ but maybe two or three. So I mean I was good enough to letter‚ it was fun.

So I was‚ you know‚ part of Honor G. What was interesting‚ somewhere in there‚ and so I don't know‚ you know‚ where to put it in the narrative exactly‚ but somewhere in there‚ - and I always liked sports‚

And I love baseball. So I must have gone to visit‚ you know‚ like a men's baseball game or something and I was standing there and John Pfitsch was the athletic director then and also the men's baseball coach and he was also coaching First Base‚ way different setup than we have it for now‚ so.

I mean there's a low‚ like‚ probably‚ maybe up to here or you know like chain link fence‚ like‚ and so I was just standing there. Why was I standing by the fence there? I'm not sure. Maybe I knew somebody on the team..I can't remember‚ but Pfitsch just started talking to me‚

as he liked to do with students‚ and he just turned to me and he said‚ “do you see that guy over there?” and it was the catcher and he had just thrown his mask or whatever. I said‚ “yeah?” you know‚ and he said‚ “he's hypertense. That's what that is. He's hypertense” and I thought‚ “ok

interesting” you know. But somehow I ended up talking to Pfitsch a lot and liking him. And so he and I became good friends throughout life until he died when he was 91. But as a result of

getting to know him‚ like‚ you know‚ pretty much everybody at Grinnell too or a lot of students had student jobs. I mean it was just like a great way to have some spending money and stuff like that. And so‚ because I knew him‚ I ended up working in the

athletic director's office‚ like helping doing secretarial stuff‚ which is what I did in my summer job‚ filing and typing and that kind of stuff. And‚ and then I said‚ oh yeah‚ I would work in the cage‚ you know‚ so the cage you'd be handing out towels or checking people in and out of the

PEC. I’m sure they've got a similar system now for checking stuff out as people go over to work out. So anyway‚ I did that and then eventually that led to me officiating. So I mean‚ I ran chains for football. I was like the chain gang that runs up and down and does the

1st and ten measurements‚ I was a timekeeper in basketball. I kept score in baseball‚ all of that stuff. It was a lot of fun‚ probably did timing for track‚ probably did timing for swimming‚ and then everybody had stop watches.

Wasn't like again‚ like you couldn't just touch the pool or even‚ even have like a digital timer. I mean it was like stop watch. It was a very interesting time. But anyway‚ so one of the things that happened‚ so I mean I had a lot of athletic contact‚

and I had a lot of friends who were playing sports and I lived on north campus where‚ if you want to talk about like the divide‚ which I guess I did‚ was sort of the jock side of campus‚ north campus‚ and I guess because it was sort of closer to the PEC - physical education complex - kind of ended up being‚ you know‚ like…kind of cause that's all gone now‚ that's just the big field there‚ but kind of‚ you know‚ across from Harris‚ kind of where that parking lot is and stuff.

Maya Albanese: And‚ it was state of the art. It was

Kit Wall: the only other indoor track in Iowa besides Graceland. So as a result of that‚ Pfitsch said to me‚ you know - he became the track coach also - and he said‚ we're gonna run weekly track meets over here.

And because we're the only - it is winter - and we're the only ACM college that even has an indoor track - other than Graceland - every Friday we're gonna have a track meet‚ and we're gonna invite whoever wants to come and run‚ “come and run!” And so sometimes those will be dual meets.

And we would have a big‚ like a big invitational and then an outdoor big invitational‚ and he said‚ “I'm gonna coach” and I think before even he coached‚ there was a‚ another coach who

also coached other sports‚ I mean all the coaches then did. And he said “I'll be the track coach‚ but I don't want to run the meets. It's too much work.” And so John [Pfitsch] said‚ “ok‚ I'll run the meets” and so then John said to me‚ “ok‚ I'm gonna hire you to run the meets.”

I was like‚ “ok!” and he said “well you've been a timer‚ you know how to do all this stuff‚ you know all the people‚ it'll be fine.” And so‚ I don't know if you've been to a track meet at Grinnell‚ but I mean it's a lot of work. You have a lot of timers‚ you have

you have timers that are timing all of the track runners for the running parts. If you're watching any of the Olympics‚ you'll kind of see some of it. Then you have officiating‚ you've got people that are officiating at‚ the discus or the javelin or the shot put or the hammer throw or the long jump or the triple jump or the…

you know‚ or the high jump or the pole vault or‚ you know‚ so we would run all of those. You've gotta have about three officials on every one of those field sports and then for each lane as a timer‚ you'd have probably three timers and

you know‚ a couple of other administrative types. But it was great because we had money to pay students and so my job was kind of to round up a bunch of students that wanted to earn money once a week and they were like‚ “Yeah cool. Sign me up!” So‚ it was‚ it was really a unique thing because it was a student run event‚

and that had never happened before. And‚ again‚ like we were fielding new women's sports that hadn't happened‚ but‚ you know‚ we were becoming more active in all of this kind of stuff. And so‚ I remember the first track meet and there was a football coach from Coe College

who was pretty much‚ if you were gonna typecast a‚ a football coach‚ I mean he was like…he must have played centers so he was kind of like not real tall‚ but kind of like square.

You know‚ so that means sort of like overweight‚ just kind of a good old boy white guy central Iowa‚ kind of a guy. And so you have a meeting of the Clerk of the Course and you have the coaches there and stuff and so.

So‚ Pfitsch is introducing me‚ “Kit Wall blah blah blah‚ student‚ yada yada‚” and so on. So then he said‚ “well‚ I don't know. I mean‚ I've never been to a student run meet‚ so I‚ you know‚ I don't know. I mean‚ I've come all this way and you know”

- what was Central College‚ like an hour away‚ Pella‚ Iowa‚ an hour or hour and a half‚ I don't know- “And so I don't know I don't know if I can do this” and John said‚ “well‚ look‚ you're all the way here. So‚ I mean‚ it's up to you‚ but‚ but she's gonna run the meet‚ we're doing it anyway.

You know‚ give it a shot. I mean‚ what do you get to lose?” And he was like‚ “well‚ yeah…” So anyway‚ we ran the meet and it must have been more than a dual meet‚ so it must have been a few schools. And so‚ you know‚ the meet happened. Grinnell‚ you know‚ maybe finished in the middle of the pack. I mean it wasn't.

Y’know‚ Grinnell wasn't tearing it up. I mean Central probably had more awards than anybody else anyway. But what was funny about it was afterwards‚ it was really a cool thing I have to say‚ this coach came up to me somewhere on the track and he said‚ “I‚ I just have to tell you‚ that this is the best run track meet I've ever attended. You know‚ thank you. And‚ you know‚ I apologize. I mean‚ you‚ you did a great job.” I thought “wow‚ pretty nice!”

So the funny thing about that piece of doing that‚ especially as somebody who‚ I was probably 20‚ I probably did that my junior and senior years‚ I'm gonna say‚ my guess. And that really is something that I do all the time.

I mean I run events all the time. I organize things all the time. I hire people‚ I mean it wasn't all smooth sailing. We had‚ we had a couple of incidents‚ I mean‚ depending on how deep you ever want to go on any of that‚ go down that path‚ but cause this is really a Georgia Dentel piece.

But anyway‚ what's important about it is‚ I think an extracurricular activity like that ends up being really one of the major skill sets and one of the just surprisingly influential in the work that I do today.

And John also was a big creative visualization person‚ which was kind of very spiritual esoteric then‚ you know‚ and‚ the inner game of tennis and stuff like that was kind of‚ you know…

kind of extra terrestrial‚ it was really strange. And‚ but he was that way and now people think about that a lot. Creative visualization isn't that weird‚ but those kinds of things I think really

helped me in a way that‚ you know‚ I couldn't have imagined because I‚ you know‚ when I'm visualizing something‚ I'm a visual person anyway‚ so if I visualize it‚ I can make it happen. If I write down notes and take them down‚ then it's as if it happened. I maybe don't even read those notes again‚ but I had to write them‚ you know

to look at them. So anyway‚ those two things coming out of athletics were really important. And‚ he and I - John and I - wrote a philosophy of athletics book that never got published for a lot of reasons. And then

I helped him with a book that did get published‚ we started it together and then he had another writer work on it as well‚ so I ended up editing it‚ which was called Pfitsch Tales - which is probably still in the college bookstore - and he really wanted to do I think a history of Grinnell College athletics‚ but I was like…

He eventually goes‚ “you know‚ this is kind of boring‚ isn't it?” I said‚ “well‚ I’ve kind of been waiting for you to figure that out..” But you did a lot of tapes just like this‚ but not visual‚ just audio‚ and‚ and that's another project I want to talk to you about later at another time.

But‚ anyway‚ I would say athletics had a prominent role in shaping me. We also had‚ we didn't have NCAA then‚ National Collegiate Athletics Association for Women. We had the AIAW

which was the American Institute‚ American Intercollegiate Athletics for Women. And so students were represented in that organization‚ and eventually the NCAA‚ you know‚ conned enough people from big universities to come over to their side cause they could do scholarships and would make sure your

students‚ you know‚ get a college degree and all this kind of stuff and I remember talking to the the woman who's the women's athletic director from University of Iowa‚ great woman‚ and she said‚ “Oh NO‚ you know‚ I mean‚ I'm always gonna make sure that that my women get‚ you know‚ graduate and have a degree and everything.” And I said‚ “that's great Ruth‚ but what happens when you go away?

is that‚ is that embedded in the program?” I mean‚ and again‚ like this is what students could do with‚ you know‚ I mean‚ she was a big deal athletic director from Iowa State. And‚ so I remember they went over to the dark side‚ they went to the NCAA and

so did the university‚ so did University of Iowa‚ and I knew her too. And‚ the first thing they did was like fire em‚ you know‚ they just got rid of the women's athletic department. It was like‚ ok‚ well‚ thanks‚ you know‚ and then it all became men's‚ it all became and‚ and continued to be football focused cause that was really the game because they were afraid that

you know‚ there was parity and they would have to pay for all these women's sports out of the football budget‚ and basketball so…And that's what happened‚ eventually. And Ruth lost her job and I graduated and did something else. But I had a lot of interaction and leadership stuff in the athletic side of things

that I couldn't have expected to have. I wouldn't have thought about it. But American Studies lent itself really well because when I moved from Religious Studies to American studies‚ it was like‚ hey‚ I'm gonna live in the United States‚ so.

And I love history and I'm a multicultural‚ pop cultural type person‚ so I think it'll be great. So anyway‚ you know‚ we just migrated there‚ that's how Grinnell is‚ right? So‚ that's how those two extracurriculars probably really factored and

stick out in my mind‚ but. I could go on way longer than you want to hear about that‚ but that that's kinda‚ that's kind of me. And it did‚ it did lead me to - because John and I were working on that philosophy of sports book - that I stayed for a year after I graduated and became the first women's cross country

and indoor and outdoor track and field coach. And John's deal‚ I learned a lot from John too about politics‚ which is kind of‚ you know‚ a world that I passed through as well‚ and I'm still sort of in now…and he was very good with the Democratic Party in Poweshiek county. I think he'd been.

chair at one point…but he was also really good on the faculty because he would bring me to the faculty luncheons every week. And he‚ and he always liked to have his ducks in a row. In other words‚ he first of all‚ learned‚ you know‚ how to count votes‚ like if there's something he wanted to do on faculty‚ then he was‚ you know‚ maneuvering to‚ you know‚ make sure he had the votes to make something happen. The other thing he taught me‚ which I think was really good and really true and works in

any place you go. It's like you get a budget‚ you spend all of it. Because otherwise someone will take it away. And it's so true. I mean‚ you might save it and move it into something else you want to save it too‚ but if you save some‚ then someone will go “meh‚ she didn't spend all that!”

And otherwise I've been the beneficiary of other budgets that didn't all get spent. “Does anyone else have a project?” “I do!” “Okay‚ good‚ you got that.” So that was one thing that he taught me. So part of the thing about Title IX was we had certain faculty slots.

So there was men's track and there was men's cross country and all of that. So he said‚ “look‚ I have a space for women's cross country” - and again‚ we had like a couple of women were running with the men's teams‚ and there wasn't a woman's team - And so he said‚ “you know‚ if I don't fill those spots

then they're just gonna take them. They're faculty spots that someone will just take and move into their department. And so I'd like you to be the Lecturer in Physical Education. We can look up‚ work on my book. I'll pay you‚ you can also get room and board and

you'll be the Head Coach for Women's Cross Country and Indoor and Outdoor Track and Field.” And I said‚ “Well John‚ you remember I didn't run track‚ right? I mean‚ I played tennis.” And he goes‚ “yeah‚ but you took all of those‚ you know‚ sports management‚ philosophy of coaching things‚ whatever‚ and you know everybody on the track teams because you did all the officiating.

You'll be great.” And Ray Obermiller‚ who is a legendary cross country and swim and diving coach. Great guy. Ray will help you and Mo Hunt who was the guy who said I'll coach track‚ but I'm not doing the meets guy. So he‚

you know‚ he was great also. He was a great mentor. So‚ that's how I became the first Women's Indoor and Outdoor Track and Field Coach for Grinnell College. And I did that for a year and then Grinnell hired the first husband-wife track team‚ and they coached for two years and then

Grinnell hired the Freemans‚ Will and Evelyn Freeman‚ both Olympic athletes‚ you know‚ Evelyn from Canada and Will‚ from the US. And funny enough‚ I was in Houston- I had moved back to Houston - and I would volunteer to officiate. And so I think

Will might have competed in one of the Decathlons or two that I officiated at the University of Houston‚ which had a really great track team. So anyway‚ funny‚ funny‚ but so I've always been good friends with the Freemans‚ but‚ but it was sort of like I needed to‚ you know‚ I kind of forced myself to leave Grinnell because I thought “I could just be here forever! I mean I like it‚ but I need

to go do some stuff in the world. I'm like 22 years old. Where have I been? What have I seen‚ you know?” So anyway all of those things are important because I built on them to do other things.

Not that you couldn't get that on any other extracurricular deal‚ you know? Pat was doing music stuff‚ and drama. And other people‚ you know‚ do other things. So it just happened to be what I was doing‚ so that's kind of my background.

Maya Albanese: Yeah. So I guess besides athletics and the American Studies SEPC‚ were there other clubs or activities that you were involved in that you enjoyed or had some sort of impact on you?

Kit Wall: I don't know. I'm trying to…I mean I was probably involved to some degree in student government‚ and I was also a student advisor maybe for three years‚ maybe sophomore junior and senior years‚ certainly second year..

but maybe third and fourth year too. I honestly can't remember. But‚ you know‚ I think I was probably relatively active in SGA. I didn't really want to be SGA president or anything but I might have been like the representative from my hall.

You know‚ and then and then I would of course support all my friends doing‚ you know‚ whatever they were doing‚ like‚ you know‚ music or drama or‚ you know. So the good news about Grinnell is you could know a lot of people doing a lot of stuff.

So‚ I felt plugged in‚ I didn't really feel like “I'm only gonna do sports!” It just took up a lot of my time but I wasn't myopic about it. I mean fine arts I really liked.

And in fact‚ you know‚ that's why‚ like‚ I kind of started out my professional career doing‚ I thought it was either gonna‚ you know‚ go into sports journalism‚ television‚ whatever. I ended up going into professional sports‚ marketing and promotion with‚ soccer‚

professional soccer. And then that led to working for an arena where they had a lot of rock and roll promotion and events‚ so I produced stuff in the arena and produced television in the arena because they had the ability to do that. And then‚ I think I did another‚ I think I did indoor soccer then

and then because one of the owners of the team was a real estate developer‚ I ended up being over there and kind of thinking‚ oh‚ I'm gonna get an MBIA thing. Then I was like‚ no. No and while I was thinking about that‚ I was thinking‚ “I think I want to do broadcast radio and television. That kind of grabs me. I don't think I want to just

have a straight up business degree.” So I started moving in that direction and then somebody told me about - I was managing bands for fun‚ you know‚ my friends and‚ and writing for local music‚ newspaper stuff - and then somebody told me about a position for public relations that opened up‚ and I'd done public relations in sports and

you know‚ all kinds of PR and writing and associated press and all kinds of stuff. So a radio station which was a sports and news talk on one side and rock and roll classic rock on another side. So I got hired for classic rock and ended up doing their publicity and promotion.

So it was all the rock and roll shows‚ then we started producing a rock and roll television show that looked like a hybrid version of MTV videos - which MTV looks totally different now - but a series of videos and then like Saturday Night Live-esque skits and interviews.

So when I moved over there‚ I kind of went “man‚ I don't think I really need an MBA or a master's degree in‚ you know‚ television radio cause I'm doing it.” And then I started my own production company and then the oil market dropped out in Houston‚ so I was like‚ “I'm from California. Why am I doing this here?”

So then I moved to California and did that‚ and I lived in LA and did some more rock and roll and production stuff. And then I was like‚ “yeah‚ I remember why I didn't want to live in LA” and my mom lived in the Bay Area‚ so I moved back up here. And then my mom said‚ “I don't really know what you do‚ but I think your aunt does

stuff that's sort of like what you do.” And my aunt was a political consultant in Sacramento‚ our state capital‚ and had been chief of staff for the lieutenant governor and started her own political firms‚ so I kind of went down that path. And except for one year where Democrats lost everything. That was the Clinton ‘94 election‚ my rock and roll friends that I had worked with

in Houston said‚” hey‚ we know you're not doing anything. Why don't you come out on the road with us with David Copperfield?” So that's why I ended up working with David Copperfield who was kind of like a rock and roll magic guy. And so‚ we traveled around the US and also went to Europe‚ which was really cool. But then‚ you know‚ we didn’t really have‚ don't have the laptops you have now‚ we didn't have any of this portable stuff. And after about a year of that I'm like‚ “yeah‚ well‚ I'm gonna go back to politics‚ I think now.” So‚ I mean‚ I've kind of been in public policy for the most part since then‚ but not entirely‚ but mostly.

Maya Albanese: Ah.

Kit Wall: And‚ but different subject areas‚ so wine industry and all kinds of stuff and then kind of devolved mostly into health care and then now for some reason‚ forensic mental health‚ I mean a lot to do with mental health and keeping people with mental health issues out of criminal justice. It's a weird way to kind of wind through here‚ but here I am.

So‚ Grinnell stuff just leads to other stuff a lot of times.

So anyway‚ so there‚ there was a stop in there‚ that's where the entertainment‚ there's an entertainment stop in there‚ from between sports and public policy‚ and so that's‚ that's how I really‚ in the music industry and‚ and part of what Georgia did too was beyond that‚ like you mentioned film‚ and then she also brought like drama and musicals and I mean. I saw‚ she had Julie Christie‚ I believe. I'm thinking‚ Bob Render‚ I'm thinking I talked to..I think we were talking about..I think he picked her up or something…at least I think he was a driver.

But‚ you know‚ so we had really interesting stuff or you might‚ you know‚ get some‚ you know‚ ballet people or everything was coming as it still does up and down interstate 80 between Chicago and Kansas City‚ so.

So there was a lot of other stuff she did besides just‚ you know‚ rock and roll and music stuff. And‚ one of the things when you talked about the films‚ asked about them in here‚ I just want to be sure that you guys take a look at‚ if you haven't‚

Maybe talking to Dick Knapp‚ if that name has come up. K N A P P because he's the big donor for that‚ is it gonna be like the film building or the fine arts building or..?

Maya Albanese: Yeah.

Kit Wall: That’s coming out of the ground. I wanna say‚ is he maybe in the class of 75? I tried to talk to Dick because I really wanted to talk to him about Georgia because he was such a film guy and I wanted to know more about‚ “well‚ how did you feel about Georgia?” I wanted him to come to that reception.

And then people who were his classmates said “he's not really necessarily social.” So I'm thinking to myself‚ “does he have aspergers? I don't know.” I mean I was busy at the reunion‚ but he had done a tour of downtown Grinnell‚ which would have been really interesting‚ but there were too many things going on at the reunion‚ so I really didn't get a chance to go with him.

But I think he'd be good to talk to‚ because I think he really‚ I just feel like he really has the film thing‚ that's like really his thing.

So‚ anyway‚ I don't want to get ahead of your flow for how you want to ask questions‚ but it kind of gives you sort of that entertainment piece.

Maya Albanese: Well‚ yeah‚ I mean‚ I guess you talked about in our pre-interview about why this project came about and one of the big reasons was how important music was to your class‚ and clearly like with you and Pat's early friendship‚ music was a very important bonding factor. So‚ are there any concerts or performances that you remember especially?

Kit Wall: You know there were a lot of them.

And I'm also going to suggest‚ if you haven't already‚ if you go to Spotify‚ Pat and Bob and I - but mostly Pat- put it together‚ you know‚ cause there's all kinds of‚ you can‚ you can pull up a list‚ and if you do a search for Grinnell concerts‚

and it would be like Grinnell concerts‚ ‘75‚ ‘76‚ ‘77‚ 45th reunion‚ that playlist will come up. And so that'll give you an idea of who was there when we were there. If you guys‚ you know‚ want to put that in your file. I mean again it's‚ it's a really great musical set list basically.

So‚ you know‚ I took another look at that today to see who I was missing that I forgot. I mean‚ I remember Springsteen just because it's so big because he was on the cover of Time and Newsweek that week that we saw him at Grinnell in Darby Gym‚ which no longer exists either‚ but it was kind of a tiny gym.

But‚ and from what I understand later‚ he tried to get out of that contract because he had gotten big‚ not him necessarily‚ but his management. And Georgia was like “uhhh no.

we want to have him‚ we're lucky” and so she worked out some kind of deal and maybe Pat knows‚ maybe Bob knows‚ but she worked out like she was a horse trader. I mean she knew what she was doing and so she worked out some other deal like “I'll help you book XYZ band” or “I’ll do this for you‚ but I want to keep Bruce” and so and I heard later‚ like from somebody

else who worked at Grinnell for a while‚ who knew one of the founders of Jam Productions‚ and that was a big‚ like Bill Graham Presents‚ like a big‚ concert promoter and stuff and still is‚ I think in the Chicagoland area‚ but he‚ this woman‚ who had worked at Grinnell‚

and his son were high school classmates together‚ so they were buddies and so they knew each other and so she said when she told him she was gonna go work in Grinnell or something‚ he goes “Grinnell College? Oh my god‚ do you know Georgia Dentel?” And she said “well not yet‚” and he said‚ “well man‚ you know‚ be careful! She can make a deal‚ you know‚ she‚ you know‚ she's tough or something!” and I mean‚ and it wasn't like in an awful way‚ but I just thought that was funny. So when we brought this up around reunion‚

she was like‚ “oh‚ let me tell you that little story” and I got such a kick out of it.

So people really knew her. So anyway‚ that concert‚ of course‚ is memorable for those reasons because he was such a big deal at that time.

And there you were‚ like this guy‚ you know‚ right here. But I also really liked‚ there was a lot of guitar stuff. There was Larry Coryell‚ who was the jazz guitarist‚ McCoy Tyner‚ played piano‚ kind of a jazz guy‚ Gil Scott-Heron‚

who I believe also was playing piano. A thing that’s interesting about Gil Scott-Heron‚ you might have heard this‚ you might have heard this tape or something at some point in time. He was the one who did the “revolution will not be televised and you will have this and this and this and the blah blah blah and the revolution will not be televised.” That was Gil Scott-Heron.

So he was really an interesting guy. Hound Dog Taylor‚ I remember because he was like this old blues guy and it was in the Forum‚ it was in the North Lounge‚ a tiny room really. And he was great and I was standing off to the side‚ and this was so funny‚ and he would have been like a hundred years old honest to God. I mean‚ he was probably like 50-something‚ but he seemed like he was a million years old. And I'm standing there and he comes over and he starts flirting with me. And I'm like‚ oh god creepy‚ you know? And‚ and so he's

like “you‚ you just wait right here‚ you know‚ when I come back” and I'm like‚ “I don't really want to do this.” You know‚ I wanted to watch the show and I was‚ it was standing room only and so I'm just standing there. So then‚ so then I don't know‚ he played another song or something came back out‚ talked to me for a few minutes‚ I thought‚ “yeah‚ no.

I'm just gonna go to the back. I'm just gonna go out.” And Pat and Bob‚ like the three of us were talking about‚ you know‚ our reminiscences and stuff and “oh Hound Dog Taylor‚ that was so amazing! That was so amazing” and whatever. And I said‚ “yeah‚ it's pretty amazing. I'll share a story with you sometime. But anyway.”

It like creeped me out. It was just like “creeper‚ gotta go!” you know. So I don't even know how old I was‚ but not old enough for him‚ for sure. Not 21.

So‚ but that was a great show. Stanley Clarke‚ another great player. Those were ones that I really‚ really remember‚ but then when I'm looking back through the list on that playlist‚ like Ry Cooder there. It was kind of all sort of..Asleep at the Wheel was kind of a

now it would be called Americana‚ country swing‚ but they're big like in Austin‚ Texas. Ry Cooder was kind of that way‚ like a John Hiatt kind of guy. These are all people that you probably have not heard of. I'm trying to think of who sounds like them now. I have to think about that.

But so there were a lot of those kinds of people from Chicago like Steve Goodman and John Prime.

Again‚ like there were a lot of‚ like Bonnie Raitt wasn't there‚ but Bonnie Raitt would have been of that ilk that's still alive and still doing stuff like that. So it was just kind of that time you would get some of that‚ like I said‚ that would be called Americana now‚ but

be kind of like‚ you know‚ that sort of genre. But there's a ton of stuff. Little Feat was another one of those that would fit into that‚ that genre. Charles Mingus was there‚ which is like big jazz‚ big time jazz‚ and that's probably from the Peter Keepnews

relationship. I don't remember seeing him‚ which is too bad‚ because he would have been amazing. Bill Evans Trio was another jazz kind of that vibe but more traditional probably than Charles Mingus.

See Stanley Clarke could kind of walk that line and Larry Coryell‚ so they were good. And then the blues stuff like Koko Taylor‚ she was a woman blueser. She was great. So‚ you know. So yeah‚ I mean there's tons of stuff. There's so much stuff going on at Grinnell that you couldn't do it all‚ really. And‚ and then if you..

part of the thing that Georgia did‚ like the American Film and Culture class that I took with Don Irving‚ had been my favorite class. Like‚ you know‚ as an American Studies person‚ you probably would have totally dug it.

And the thing that was neat about it‚ we had all these classic films‚ and so‚ as I was older‚ right‚ and thinking about it‚ I thought‚ “yeah‚ well‚ Don probably coordinated with Georgia to order these films and to figure out like‚ well‚ what do you want your class to see? Because we would analyze them for‚ kind of a reflection of what‚ kind of a historical reflection of what was going on in the US at the time‚ like Birth of a Nation‚

you know‚ which is of course supremely racist‚ but one of the very first films. And then It Happened One Night with Claudette Colbert and‚ God I'm trying to think who was the love interest‚ isn't that weird? Just went out of my head. Maybe? Cary Grant I'll bet you anything. It's weird that I can't remember that‚ but I can see that I can see the setup. They were forced to stay together and

then they had to share a bed so they rigged up a thing and put the beds spread between you know‚ racy stuff‚ man!

So‚ you know‚ but it was interesting because there were‚ that was when they started‚ in the thirties kind of doing censorship basically around film and so. Probably It's a Wonderful Life. We probably did that. I'm sure we did some Gary Cooper stuff because of the Grinnelll connection.

But what was great‚ the memorable part was‚ was that you were analyzing these films not only for a reflection of the culture at the time and what was happening‚ but also‚ you know‚ by shots‚ like why did the camera move like this? And why did the lighting look like that? And so you're also really learning again other stuff that I used‚ like production‚ you know‚ essentially storyboarding things and‚ and thinking about how they worked. So‚ the fact that she and Don must have been friends‚ I mean‚ they must have collaborated on this and decided what they were gonna order. And then‚ and then those

f films would be available‚ then people would go to ARH‚ that's where the film would be. There was no Harris‚ but‚ and so those films would run with other stuff.

And for class‚ we'd have to watch a film at least twice‚ maybe three times because you'd have to be‚ you were analyzing them. So‚ that was pretty‚ I mean‚ again‚ that was pretty important for me because you know of the production aspect that I did. So I didn't recognize the time I was at Grinnell that‚ oh‚ like “I should go talk to Georgia about booking bands‚ or promoting bands or‚

you know‚ film or something.” You know‚ but I ended up‚ I mean these are places that I ended up going to.

And every bit as important really is having a professor

you know‚ lay it out for you‚ which I think when people interview Pat or Bob - especially Pat - because Pat can tell you how many people from Grinnell also became promoters or musicians or have something to do with the industry‚ maybe they became attorneys‚ but they're agents.

We don't even know‚ I don't think. I mean‚ I think we should do something with career development and see

who's doing what. I think that would be really interesting. So maybe we'll do that cause we wanna help development‚ you know‚ try to raise some money to also do‚ like‚ some sort of a physical space in honor of her too‚ if we can do it.

But‚ so that's why upon reflection‚ you know‚ looking back on things‚ these were just things I was interested in that I ended up like doing for a living or‚ you know‚ like‚ yeah‚ I'd really like to do that. I love that. Why don't I do that?

And so upon reflection and‚ and being in the business and frankly‚ it's getting a lot better‚ but in corporate America it kind of didn't matter. If you were in sports‚ you know‚ it was like the time that “ooh should we allow women journalists in the locker room to interview men?” There weren't any women sportscasters. There was one in Chicago‚ there was one in Houston…I met both of them to talk with them…

Now like everybody's all over the place or now we've got we're getting some women's sport coaches in men's basketball. Finally the WNBA looks like‚ you know‚ might be something. I mean‚ it's a slow thing‚ but I can still say that in that business‚ in promotions type stuff‚ you don't ever hear like‚ there's no big woman promoter‚ you know‚ there's

Bill Graham‚ there's you know Louis Messina in Houston. There was..I'm blanking on his name but the guy at Jam Productions I just mentioned. I mean‚ the guys I knew in Ohio that did Copperfield. I mean‚ there were all these little pockets of promoters. There was no “Georgia Dentel and Company” promoter‚

which was stupid. But there were women working for all these men that were doing the jobs that one of my‚ still my very best friends‚ worked for the promoter in Houston and she was the one who became Copperfield;s manager and did a bunch of other drama tours and musical tours and stuff. Musical as in like play type productions.

And‚ I remember her saying like‚ she said‚ “yeah‚ I mean if I had a penis‚ I would get paid twice as much as‚ you know. I'd be paid what you’re being paid‚ Stevie‚” you know‚ to one of her colleagues. “I'm doing all your work‚ you're just wearing a cowboy hat and going to the [inaudible].”

So‚ you know‚ upon reflection and thinking about it especially when we were talking about our reunion‚ you know. It was like and‚ and so people were talking about‚ “let's talk about the concerts!” I was and I said‚ “Yeah let's talk about those concerts!” That was a big part of what we did‚ the music and

our entertainment on the weekends and all this stuff. You know‚ people didn't have cars‚ they didn't like to just bust off to any of these places. I mean‚ we were there‚ you know? And so it was like‚ yeah‚ let's do something about that. And so that's‚ that's kind of how we thought‚ “that's a big thing for us. Let's do it!” And that really made me think

more so about Georgia and just how absolutely amazing it was to pull it off in that time period‚ but it would still be amazing. I mean‚ she would still be a national person‚ I think‚ and people would

you know. But it was probably‚ people probably were friendlier than‚ people probably knew her better. She had a name for herself. That's another thing I would love to read that Billboard article if you have a link to that. I could probably find it too 238 “albanese” NO‚ yeah‚ I can totally send you that

That would be interesting. But‚ so she was memorable to these male promoters because there weren't any‚ you know‚ and here's this woman in Grinnell like wheeling and dealing over there and they probably loved her because she would say‚ “ok‚ I'll‚ you know‚ I'll take a Wednesday night” or‚ “can I have a Friday night if I can book you‚ around that? Like I'll book you a Saturday night somewhere and I'll book you another

side because‚ you know‚ they were driving through anyway.” And so they probably really liked that and and after a while‚ my guess is knowing how things go‚ they were like‚ yeah‚ well‚ we've got this band and they would call her probably and go‚ hey‚ “you know‚ we're gonna do a thing in Iowa city‚ we're gonna go to Des Moines or we're gonna go to Kansas City or we're gonna go to Minneapolis or somewhere‚ but we're

gonna be in your vector. We need another date. You guys got some money‚ you want to do it?” You know? “Yeah‚ I've only got this much‚ you know‚ this is we don't have a lot of money in our budget‚ whatever‚” like‚ “alright fine‚ we'll do it” because what the hell‚ they weren't gonna do anything‚ anyway. They were just gonna drive through.

So I think it became really a two way street and I think she really provided a service for a lot of bands‚ promoters‚ entertainers‚ people placing films‚ you know‚ they do the same sort of thing. They find places to put films‚ you know‚ and they probably thought‚ “Yeah‚ let's see…”what's Grinnell College?

that's on our way‚ you know‚ we can probably get a few bucks out of that. You know‚ what the hell?” So I think she became well known-it'd be so much fun to talk to her-I think she became well known nationally‚ from‚ you know‚ because of certain agents and promoters that she worked with and gave ‘em business.

And so when students also like Pat or somebody said‚ “oh yeah‚ you know‚ I'd really‚ it'd be really cool if we could get Little Feat‚ you know‚ I saw them in Chicago” or “I saw so and so in St. Louis or whatever. It'd be cool if we could get them.” Well‚ once she figured out who was representing them‚ she might have thought like‚ “yeah‚ maybe we have a shot”

Because she had those relationships with that promoter‚ maybe the promoter will go‚ “well‚ I'll give you Little Feat‚ but I'm really pushing this other band‚ can you find a space for them somewhere? Like they might be on tour next month.”

“Alright‚ well let me see” you know. Then she would probably say “not only can I find you something‚ but I also can get you Iowa City‚ but then I need a fee reduction on this other thing because I really don't have the budget for that one. But I'll get your other band two gigs.” “Well alright‚ I guess I could take a little bit less. For the other two gigs‚ yeah‚ yeah. I can do that.” I mean I can just imagine how that would go.

And‚ so I just think there weren't very many people doing that. It would also be fun to know‚ but I don't know how we would ever‚ you know‚ really how we would find out. Like the pre‚ pre Excel spreadsheets of women student affairs people‚ you know.

But I think that's what made her remarkable and maybe she was so good at using the phone because she didn't really like to see people in person as time went on‚ you know‚ it's possible.

Maya Albanese: Yeah

Kit Wall: So what are other things that you would like to know? I mean‚ I know I think I'm going out of‚ I think I'm going out of order here‚ but…

Maya Albanese: I think‚ yeah‚ you've covered a lot of ground‚ I’m just looking and seeing if there's anything that…

Kit Wall: You had asked me too about‚ I think we kind of had the counterculture vibe because that kind of‚ that was kind of‚ like I was saying‚ sort of a more active student time and I think that was a result of the Sixties.

and the movement‚ the anti-war movement‚ the equal rights movements. I mean students just demanding more of a voice‚ the voting age changing to 18 because of the Vietnam war. So Grinnell just..

I think it was in that‚ in that sort of path anyway‚ but‚ you know‚ we just‚ we just kind of accepted it as entitlement. And I remember like the first time going home for‚ like homecoming or something‚ right? When you go after your first year‚ you're gonna go see all your friends. And so like‚ “yeah‚ I live in a co-ed dorm”‚ like “a co-ed dorm?! Really?!”

And‚ and I'm like‚ “Yeah‚ you know‚ we're co-ed by floor.” “Woooow!” I said “some dorms are coed by room.” “Really? How does that work?” “You know‚ well‚ we have [inaudible]‚ like‚ you know‚ some people care‚ and so we have like a little pie chart thing and it'll say women or men or don't care.” “Really?!” And I said‚ “yeah‚ I mean‚ isn't your bathroom at home co-ed? I mean‚ don't you just close and lock the door? I mean‚ what's the big deal?” “Oh‚ I guess so.”

And‚ and even when you lived in the women's dorm‚ which‚ because we had room draw‚ so in your second year‚ you know‚ you're just gonna get a low number or a high number depending on how you look at it. You're gonna have‚ you're gonna have a choice at the end of the line. So in order to get a single‚ it was like‚ ok‚ I'll pick the women's dorm.

And I thought‚ you know‚ it‚ I mean I live with two brothers‚ so it'd be like‚ the bathroom will be cleaner‚ someone will put the toilet seat down‚ you know‚ the rooms aren't trashed. And nobody was like clocking people in or out at the door‚ I mean‚ you know.

You could have guys in your room. I mean somebody could probably live there. They would never know. I mean it doesn't really‚ it didn't really matter. So it was a great place and I think Rawson was the women's dorm then and I think I stayed there all three years. I mean‚ I had great rooms‚ NO one else wanted to live there. You know‚ they were kind of freaked out by it.

I'm like‚ yeah‚ ok. I had a two room double that was a Resident Advisors suite on the Loggia in Rawson that had‚ like it had a living room‚ like a bedroom. Feels like it did..yeah cause it was like a two room. Yeah‚ cause it would have been a double..so it must have had like a living room area‚ like a little bedroom area‚ and a bathroom with a tub.

Maya Albanese: Oh‚ wow!

Kit Wall: It was amazing! And I got it. Yeah‚ I mean we‚ my roommate and I drew it as a two room double‚ but again‚ nobody wanted to live in Rawson‚ so there was a single open. She goes‚ “I'm just gonna move across the hall in a single”- and they all had sinks and stuff- and I said‚ “really? Are you ok with that?”

She goes‚ “oh yeah‚ I'm fine. You know‚ that'd be great for me.” And‚ you know‚ so I was like‚ “ok‚ wow‚ too bad‚ alright!”

So‚ I mean‚ so the women's dorm was great. I never felt too weird about that‚ but it was fun being a Student Advisor there because you would get some pretty conservative first years‚ you know‚ and so they‚ they kinda had to go through some stuff so it was good. It was fine. So the counterculture vibe I mean‚ that's what we were living in coming out of

I think student activism‚ and so we just kind of just took it like‚ well‚ yeah‚ I mean‚ it’s how life is‚ you know? And I think Grinnell had gone through the upheavals‚ so they were like‚ “ok‚ you know‚ as long as they seem nice…” so that's good. So‚ you know‚ it was just kind of that way.

And‚ it was interesting…when I was on alumni council - I must have been going to the trustee meetings then‚ it was either president elect or president - so you'd be on the board of trustees

but ex officio. So you didn't vote as a trustee‚ but you were on the board‚ which was interesting. And‚ the SGA president that year‚ they would present stuff and I think there were co-presidents that year‚ two guys. And the big deal was that‚ there was

I don't remember which‚ I want to say it was on South campus‚ but one of the dorms‚ let's say Main‚ I don't know. Somebody was smoking in the lounge as in cigarettes‚ like not weed‚ which‚ ok. And so it was freaking people out.

And so somebody‚ some students parents called President Osgood and just some sort of big melt down and then they‚ like they banned smoking and then students went nuts and‚ you know‚ so that was like this big controversy going on and

so I was giving this guy a ride back and‚ and they were like‚ you know‚ well‚ “we demand that‚ you know‚ we should be consulted before these rules happen and‚ you know‚ student government and whatever” and I said‚ “you know‚

I'm just gonna suggest something here‚ because‚ you know‚ if it is student government and self government‚ which Grinnell likes to talk about all the time‚ self government means self government. So‚

like‚ since we're old people‚ you know‚ in the seventies‚ like what would have happened? I said‚ first of all‚ cigarettes wouldn't have been a big deal. People would have been like smoking pot big time. And so‚ and it was illegal‚ so I mean‚ people would put a towel under their door‚ they would be in their room for the most part or probably go way out on an athletic

field or something. So‚ first of all‚ people were like‚ like‚ one‚ we don't want to get caught‚ but two‚ you know‚ we're not gonna like flame up in front of everybody and drive everyone crazy. Point being‚ there was someone smoking in your lounge that other people didn't like because it was a common area and they didn't like it. Fair enough.

But then what happens in self government typically - back in our day - you know‚ you would have gone to that person and you'd go‚ “listen pal‚ stop it. You want to smoke‚ smoke in your room. You know‚ other people are coming down here‚ they want to study‚ they don't want to be in a smoke-filled room.” Fair enough. “You have a room‚ flame up in there or go find a place. But if I‚ if we have to tell you again‚

we'll go to the dean‚ and we'll turn you in. So like‚ thank you for sharing‚ go back to your room.” And he was like‚ “ohhh”‚ and I said‚”so that's really self government.” I mean‚ you would have put the herd on somebody and not let it get bumped to the administration cause once that happens‚

you've lost your control‚ you know? I mean‚ obviously. So he was like‚ “wow!” So that was‚ you know‚ that was kind of our‚ that was kind of our vibe. So we were kind of coming out of the sixties as the entitled people‚ and yet we still pretty much had that figured out.

So that's kind of our culture. The Jenny Erikson question..Jenny and I became really good friends mainly because Jenny and her husband Luther‚ Luther was a chemistry professor‚ and he and John Pfitsch were best friends. And I found out later in life‚ much later‚ that Luther and I had the same birthday.

Maya Albanese: Oh wow!

Kit Wall: Which is really a trip. So we were always twins born at different times together. So Jenny I really got to know more as an adult alum than I knew as a student‚ but I did know her‚ and Tom Latimer - I knew Tom more because part of his purview was also running‚ you know‚ the physical education complex and all of that kind of stuff. So I love Jenny. I mean‚ she's one of my favorites‚ and a good person to learn more about Jenny would be

Ed Senn‚ who you probably heard of because he's part of our project‚ but Ed is a little bit younger than I am‚ but he and Jenny were really good friends because he worked at the forum. And‚ I think Bob knew her pretty well too‚ I think.

And Jenny was the one who told me like she said‚ you know‚ “Georgia didn't come over much” because I was trying to find out some more about Georgia‚ too. And‚ so I would say talk to Jenny who's still at the Mayflower‚ but she didn't seem to remember too much about Georgia..maybe there’s some days now…

well‚ her memory's slipping. So there may be some days now where she would really remember and then maybe not. Don Smith is still a really great resource. You guys haven't talked to him recently. He loves this stuff. And he loved Georgia.

So‚ you know‚ that's kind of the Jenny thing. The other thing I want to know more about‚ you know‚ when we talk‚ I want to know more about the show that you wrote about in her biography‚ in I think 97‚ did you say it was the forum show?

Maya Albanese: Mhm.

Kit Wall: Because I was trying to find that so hard and through the archives and everything and everybody thought somebody else did it. Like Rachel sent me to somebody else and then‚ and‚ the archives people said‚ “no no no‚ that's‚ you know‚ somebody else” and then “NO‚ that was so and so.” “No‚ I already talked to them. They said it was you.” “No‚ it wasn't me.” So if you have latched onto any more info about that‚ I would love to know it cause that drove us crazy.

Maya Albanese: Yeah‚ unfortunately‚ no‚ I haven't found anything about it. Yeah.

Kit Wall: It's like a great mystery. Yeah‚ super bummer. And we know it happened. And I think Rachel even said she saw it‚ but we don't know what happened to it.

Maya Albanese: Yeah

Kit Wall: It was maybe just Georgia's stash‚ you know‚ maybe it didn't belong to the college. Yeah. So‚ yeah‚ that's kind of a bummer. So let's see…

we did talk about the film stuff‚ and clearly you know how that stuff stayed with me. So let's see‚ the firing of her.

Yeah‚ it was a big deal. And I think you've probably run across Pat's editorial to the S&B. And‚ those two guys were the concert guys. And I think Bob was like the activities guy and then

Pat was on the concert side. So it was interesting listening to them share stories with each other‚ which they didn't seem to know at the time. But‚ I think that‚ I mean‚ that really‚ again‚ you know‚ again‚ self governance. I mean‚ that really forced them to

have to take a look. And the whole thing was crazy. I mean‚ Kathy McCluskey did GORP‚ Grinnell outdoor recreation..and Latimer was running like all of that‚ you know‚ recreational kind of stuff. I mean‚ it was crazy‚ and so‚ when you're talking about the financial stuff‚ I mean‚ obviously‚ we were not the well-endowed school that we are today.

Which is interesting kind of because‚ the interesting thing - haven't really thought about this much‚ but - the college had the Intel stock because of Robert Noyce. And so when they decided to sell that‚ it was Joe Rosenfield and Warren Buffett who were buddies. And actually they came to Grinnell because -

that's another story too‚ but - Martin Luther King Jr. was a speaker there‚ and Warren Buffett's wife brought him to hear Martin Luther King Jr. and he was late coming out‚ so Warren ended up sitting next to Joe‚ and they were‚ you know‚ they became friends‚bridge buddies and stuff‚ and that's how Warren came to be on the board. The funny thing about Martin Luther King coming was that it was John Pfitsch who got him there.

And the funny thing about that was that‚ I don't know who was supposed to come. I can't‚ you know‚ I'm not sure I ever knew. I mean it didn't happen while I was there‚ it was the sixties‚ but there's supposed to be some convocation or something and whoever it was that was supposed to speak‚ didn't show‚ you know‚ said “can't make it.” So they had a gap. And John had always been talking about‚ you know‚ “one of my basketball players‚ his dad is‚ you know‚ friends of Dr. King and we should get him here. That would really be great.” And‚ and they were like‚ “oh God‚ you know‚ is John gonna bring this up‚ like‚ again?”

And so I already told you he was like that‚ you know‚ in faculty and stuff. So‚ anyway‚ right place‚ right time and so he said‚ “what about Dr. King? “And so they're like‚ “okay John‚ if you can get him‚ you got a week. If you can get him in a week‚ done. If you can't‚ we're moving on‚ don't want to hear him. Got it?” You know? So John called and

I think it was Randy Morgan's father‚ and Randy Morgan is probably still a life trustee. And Randy Morgan's dad got‚ you know‚ Dr. King and he came to Grinnell and it was a big damn deal. And that speech was a run up to the‚ I have a dream speech.

And that's where Warren Buffett met Joe Rosenfield! And so Robert Noyce was freaked out cause he knew that the Intel stock was doing well‚ but he was really worried it was gonna tank. Like what goes up must come down. So he was kind of freaked out about it and he really felt badly because Grinnell had never invested in anything that risky‚

like the stock market. So he was freaked out and he was worried about it and was kind of pushing on‚ you know‚ maybe Grinnell should sell a lot so high‚ maybe‚ you know‚ so I think some faculty members who probably have retired pretty well kept their stock‚ you know what I mean? But anyway‚ so Grinnell said‚ ok.

Right‚ right‚ right. So yeah‚ it's high‚ it's good. So they were gonna make a move and sell their stock‚ but then it was like‚ well‚ what are we gonna do with it? And that was when Warren Buffett was on the board and he said‚ Well‚ you know‚ I'm working on a thing‚ a little thing called Berkshire Hathaway. And so‚ you know‚ I don't know‚ but now might be interested in participating in that well‚ you know‚ It's Buffett it's Berkshire Hathaway‚ I mean‚ say no more!

So that's how Grinnell made the bulk of its money‚ and kind of all related to

Martin Luther King Jr which actually is related to athletics‚ a basketball player dad‚ and John Pfitsch‚ so another weird little trail there‚ and I'm not sure too many people know about that either‚ but that's‚ that was part of my many interviews with John.

So I have all of those tapes. But anyway‚ so that was‚ you know‚ all of that kind of the vibe of where Grinnell was‚ you know‚ in that time period. And so‚ that was something like I knew‚ you know‚ Martin Luther King Jr. had been there‚ but of course I wasn't there for that.

But anyway‚ so I'm just looking here to try to see if there was…so anyway‚ so then yeah when we pushed back on the Georgia thing‚ I guess we made a pretty good case for it. I mean and really it was a great reason why students understood how great‚ how lucky they had it because of the thing that those three people did‚ that made

you know‚ a lifestyle for Grinnell‚ really not only appealing for us‚ but we felt certain we're attracting‚ you know‚ other people like they would come on campus or visit or whatever and kind of go‚ “Oh my god‚ you know‚ this is great. We gotta go here” So‚ so somehow I guess‚ I mean it would be interesting..and that's a Don Smith thing. Don‚ that might even be in the interview that we did with him last summer‚ but he certainly has a memory of that and how that really saved her spot.

But‚ you know‚ it's more than that because‚ he knows the faculty piece and he knows‚ you know‚ the trustees piece and whatever‚ so he would have the adult version‚ which was fascinating. I can't exactly remember all the ins and outs that he said‚ but it’s sort of like “wow! Ok!”

So‚ anyway‚ so yeah‚ it had an impact. So that of course reinforced us as students to always be active‚ and‚ you know‚

push back or‚ you know‚ “no” isn't always like an absolute thing. I think you and I talked about that. It's one of the best things I got out of Grinnell too.

You know‚ “no” for me is not really too final. It's like‚ does this mean “no” forever or just for today? Does it mean I should ask you next year if you'll sponsor this or does this mean like go away‚ don't ever call me again? And so are you sure or…

And so that's what that's what all of that‚ you know‚ kind of333

Maya Albanese: I was just gonna say we're coming up on an hour 45 minutes‚ but yeah‚ I feel like you've definitely covered so much ground. I guess‚ is there anything else that you would like to share that we haven't really touched on or?

Kit Wall: You know‚ your questions were really good because you‚ you know‚ you were also

you know‚ researching this and listening to other people and stuff. I'm just looking here too‚ like it seems like in the course of conversation we did these and thank you for sending them first cause then that helped me sort of think about what we were gonna talk about.

So‚ anything else that I would share? I probably shared more than you even wanted to know. So what I want to know‚ but we could do it on another call just for fun. I do want to know how your visit to Ackley went‚ ‘cause that's just fascinating. I mean I would have loved to have gone. Did you have a good time there?

Maya Albanese: Oh yeah‚ yeah. For sure‚ I can give you a full recollection of it.

Kit Wall: You don't have to do it now‚ especially because it's late. But let's do that cause I would love to hear.

And then I'll also tell you like the three little typos on your‚ on your bio‚ but I know you're gonna expand that anyway. I'm sure. I mean‚ that's just your current draft.

But it is really good‚ super interesting‚ well written‚ and I really enjoyed it. So‚ you know‚ and you may think of some other things too‚ I would definitely follow up on the Dick Knapp piece

I don’t know where Dick lives‚ but I mean‚ I'm thinking since he seems kind of plugged in‚ he might be invested in other stuff in Grinnell. But he must be coming back‚ you know‚ to see how his building's doing. I mean‚ I don't know‚ but I think he‚ I think he'll really fill in that film piece differently. And then it seems like somebody's gonna talk to Pat‚ right?

Maya Albanese: Yeah. Hayden’s talking to Pat next week.

Kit Wall: That's right‚ Hayden. Exactly. And then who's gonna do Bob Render?

Maya Albanese: Oh‚ we already did! Jackie talked to Bob‚ and then Bowen spoke to Ed Senn. That's what we've done so far.

Kit Wall: Oh‚ great. We got the Ed part‚ that's cool. And then I just got a call‚ in fact‚ it was probably yesterday from Carter‚ but I was in a day long meeting yesterday. So somebody interviewed Carter Newton? I don't know who that was. I would have to…

Maya Albanese: We didn't interview him‚ but we had breakfast with him.

Kit Wall: Oh‚ that's it. Okay. Ok‚ good. I'm not losing it‚ it was yesterday. Tell you‚ doing this conference that I'm doing‚ it's just like - it's probably like you doing this project - you know‚ my days are just like all mushed together‚ you know? I'm like…

anyway‚ I'm glad you guys had breakfast and stuff. And Carter‚ Carter's been our class agent really for a long time‚ so he was a good one. And I think he said‚ did he tell me or did you leave it in a message about maybe interviewing Ruth?

Maya Albanese: Yeah‚ he mentioned that we should definitely interview her‚ and she's on our list.

Kit Wall: Yeah. Oh‚ good. Maybe I'm not sure‚ I'm not sure in what capacity‚ but.

That's cool. I mean I don't‚ you know‚ I‚ I didn't hang around with Ruth then and that's part of the fun thing about reunions‚ you know‚ you‚ sometimes you end up being friends with people that‚ I mean you knew who they were‚ you might have had a class with them‚ but you didn't hang with them. And so a lot of times the people that you really want to come back cause you used to really‚ you know‚ they were

like your everyday hanging around friends‚ you don't see them‚ but other people come back and then you really get to know them and you're like‚ “wow‚ that's so much‚ there's so much fun!” So‚ Ruth's one of those people who's just a really good person. So it would be‚ I'd like to know what she knows. I'd like to hear her in her interviews. So that'll be good.

So there might be some things I don't know what that's gonna be‚ but you know‚ you can always call and text me and‚ you know‚ anytime you know‚ you're not bothering me. I'll have more free time after September 6th. It will be better.

When‚ when is your final paper due?

Maya Albanese: Friday‚ upcoming Friday.

Kit Wall: Oh my goodness.

Maya Albanese: Yeah‚ yeah‚ but all four of us are continuing into the fall with the project. So I'm gonna write a longer paper for that in the fall.

Kit Wall: So do you need these corrections on your bio right now? Are you turning that in this week?

Maya Albanese: No‚ I'm not turning..I'm turning in..the paper's gonna be different. That's for the public facing website

Kit Wall: Got it. Okay. Very nice. Yeah‚ so if you think of something else that you‚ you know‚ you need or whatever‚ don't hesitate especially if your deadline's like next friday‚ a week from today‚ right?

Maya Albanese: Yeah!

Kit Wall: Yeah‚ so let me know. Yeah. Whatever you need.

Maya Albanese: Well‚ thank you so much.

Kit Wall: Oh‚ thank you. Yeah‚ thank you‚ my pleasure. The one thing I would say if people are‚ are‚ you know‚ somebody ever makes it all the way to the end of this video‚ this recording. But‚ but one of the things that I think - one you've heard me talk about reunion -

but I think all of the volunteer activities that you could think about as an alum are interesting‚ and now one of the more amazing things is really the career development aspect that's finally‚ built out really. I mean‚ there used to be a halftime person who used to be‚ Steve Langerud who runs Mayflower now‚ but..

I mean‚ it was like a halftime position. It was a great idea‚ but Grinnell could never really grasp it and on the alumni council‚ and then when I was on the board of trustees and stuff too I mean‚ I would always kind of push on it..

that there's two things‚ one is something like that can always help you with your career as you go forward. Like‚ who else is doing this kind of a job or who lives in Cincinnati?

Or‚ you know‚ I mean‚ there's different ways to do those searches‚ right? And‚ and so‚ it's great while you're in a career building mode‚ but I also think it's good for people and I've always thought about this‚ like you're gonna retire.

You know‚ I probably will never retire‚ but you know‚ people do. So like I'm gonna be in Idaho I'm gonna be in‚ you know‚ Hot Springs‚ Arkansas‚ I don't know. I'm gonna be in one of these places or I'm thinking about these five places. How many Grinnellians live‚ or

you know‚ so you start thinking about‚ you know‚ building community in different ways throughout your life in different ways…or my spouse is being transferred to Denver. You know‚ who from Grinnell is there maybe‚ you know? I'm gonna be completely new. I don't know a soul‚ who‚ you know. So‚ anyway I would always encourage that part. And I think

that's‚ again‚ it's like these extracurriculars and and that's why I was so‚ so happy really that they kept Georgia and those folks because these are things that maybe other people thought were extracurricular‚ but even more so when‚ when Hayden will talk to Pat or something‚

It was like having a professor. It was like‚ you know‚ these things are very formative and so.. same with‚ I mean‚ I've done‚ what am I trying to say‚ like student

college nights‚ when sometimes some of us would read through applications‚ would we do that? Read through recommendations‚ recommend people have interviews‚ live interviews when someone couldn't make it to campus. But there are just a lot of things you can do that kind of keep you plugged into Grinnell‚ so I would make a pitch for that always.

Maya Albanese: Yeah!

Kit Wall: Always happy to talk about that and I've been back‚ you know‚ now that‚ I think Henry Rietz is doing it now‚ but the students‚ what do you do with the Grinnell degree?

And so I'll probably do that again this coming year‚ but another great thing to do‚ so just putting in a plug for that stuff. Tell your friends! “albanese” Will do‚ yeah!

Don't forget to register and vote! So anyway‚ and yeah‚ I would love to talk to you some more too cause I want to hear more about your family dinner conversations and especially in view of what‚ what‚ you know‚ you've grown up around your dad and what he does‚ so I’d love to hear more.

Maya Albanese: Yeah‚ I'll text you. We can just have an informal chat.

Kit Wall: Yeah. When you get your downtime and‚ likewise‚ I'll be more human after September 6th.

Yeah‚ but it's kind of fun. I'll tell you‚ I'll fill you in too on what I'm putting together and so it'll be fun. I think our‚ one of our main speakers I think is going to be‚ a film producer who's been working with Ken Burns‚ like all my favorite Ken Burns stuff and had just done a youth mental health film‚ and now

he's working in adult mental health‚ and so one of the organizations that's funding my project‚ a Grinnellian‚ Toby Ewing‚ said‚ what about Erik Ewers? Well‚ and so he's texting him while we're talking and Erik says‚ “Yeah let's talk on Monday!” so I was at a meeting day long mental health commission meeting - Toby's head of that organization - and he said “I talked to Erik‚ he wants to come‚ he wants to bring somebody‚ I think he's going to record some of the Words to Deeds‚ my conference..and wants to interview the governor of California

and a bunch of other stuff. So I mean I came home yesterday and I went‚ “Oh my god. Oh‚ that's gonna be good!” So‚ that's the kind of stuff you end up doing‚ you know‚ so again I'm putting together an event with a bunch of volunteer people.

You're not even getting paid for doing this most of them so‚ you know‚ so all of these things are lifelong careers.

Yeah. All right‚ well go have some fun. It's Friday night and it’s late there for you‚ so thanks for hanging out. Go get some dinner. “albanese” Yeah‚ thanks for chatting and have a nice weekend!

Yeah‚ anytime. Yeah‚ maybe I can catch up on some work!