Georgia Dentel and Grinnell Concerts History, 1960-2001 - Interviews

Morgan Smith: And we are recording.

Great.

All right, so I'm just going to kind of read off a quick script. Thank you so much for being interviewed! The following interview was conducted with Robert Killion on behalf of the Georgia Dentel Project. It took place on July 21st, 2025 via WebEx. I'm Morgan Smith, the interviewer. And before we start the interview, I just want to confirm for the record that the legal release form was completed and sent to us and that everything is good on that front.

Rob Killion: Yes.

Morgan Smith: All right, great. All right, so then could you just briefly introduce yourself, who you are, what you do now, what you did on campus, when you were now?

Rob Killion: Yeah, I'm Rob Killion. At the time I was on campus, I was executive director, or rather, president of the Grinnell College Student Body. And during the time when Georgia Dentel was still handling concerts.

Morgan Smith: Yeah.

Rob Killion: Is that proper?

Morgan Smith: That's good, yeah.

All right.

And just kind of going to run through some intro questions. So like, how did you end up at Grinnell or like what interested you about the college as you were kind of going there to start with?

Rob Killion: Yeah, so I would you know what? I'm gonna use the restroom. I'll be right back.

Morgan Smith: All right.

Rob Killion: ...That is so much better. I'll just live with it. So my grandparents both worked for the college. My paternal grandparents, my grandpa worked in the old physical education complex. And my grandma was what was called a maid in Mears Cottage. And so, growing up, I was a first-generation college student. And growing up, I had all when I thought of college, I always thought of Grinnell College. And then by the time I was actually old enough to think about college, I knew more about Grinnell as a real institution. And luckily, my academic profile fit the bill, and I was still excited about going. I wasn't from Grinnell, but I was from just up the road in Marshall County. And so yeah, everything fell into place. And luckily, because Grinnell had wonderful need-based financial aid, and it still does, I was able to attend.

Morgan Smith: Yeah, great. Yeah, that sounds pretty familiar personally.

Could you describe any like memorable moments that you had at Grinnell, just kind of thinking back, you know? Is there anything that really stands out? I know, of course, there's the Georgia situa- bleh.. there's the Georgia situation which we'll get into.

Rob Killion: Yep. Oh man, so many. Late 80s, let's see what stands out. The highlight. Highlights are the same as the material. The Kiss-In, you may have heard of that. That was when two women who were first-year students wanted to take advantage of the exception to the housing policy where married students could live off campus before their junior year. And they were married by the Herrick chaplain, Dennis Haas. Obviously, it wasn't legal at the time. But the college didn't want to let them live off campus because it wasn't a legal marriage. And this is like late 80s. So there were all sorts of protests that spring. About that discriminatory policy, including during new- admitted student receptions when admitted students would come to campus and get a look during the- during one of the admitted student receptions, basically, while the President was talking, students circled the forum lounge where the guests were and basically had a same-sex kiss-in while it was going on. That got a lot of attention, went in the Des Moines register. There was the- what was it called? The black students had a- oh I wish I could think of what the name was. They basically had an open forum where they really wanted to get off their chest some of their frustrations, what we would now call microaggressions, but that was decades before. -what it was like to be a black student on campus. Oh, you know, we're going to hang up, and I'm going to think of what it was called. That was a highlight. It was the end of relays. I don't know if you've ever heard about relays, but relays was a huge tradition at Grinnell for years and years and years, but then heavy drinking, games drinking. It was led by Wayne Moyer, professor of history, he was the honorary sort of head of it. But the year I came was the first year without relays because the drinking age changed from 21 to 18. And the college, understandably, thought it would be incredibly, there would be a lot of liability to continue having all of this free-flowing alcohol on campus with only seniors essentially eligible to drink. And so that's when Peace Day started. I don't know if that still exists as a replacement. And then Earth, I think Peace Day sort of morphed into Earth Day. And anyway, that's when that whole transition occurred. So those are three things I remember.

Morgan Smith: Yeah definitely, relays are actually back, they're a thing on campus now today and Moyer at least up until recently was still leading- heading up that charge.

Rob Killion: My goodness, how old would he be?

Morgan Smith: I don't know, but I know he recently- he recently- he recently became a he recently became a professor emeriti. So I think he may be transitioning out of that now.

Rob Killion: Fantastic.

Morgan Smith: Yeah. And then kind of moving a little bit more towards concerts. Do you have any kind of striking memories of like going to concerts? Or of course, I know you were on SGA, maybe helping organizing them, things like that?

Rob Killion: No, you know, I mean, I did go to concerts. I did go to some concerts, but I wasn't a big concert guy. I was, I- my interests were elsewhere other than live music. But yes, I went to concerts, but that wasn't a great interest of mine. Though I do remember, what are they called? A Tribe Called Quest. That was a big memory of mine when they were on campus. That was really something. And Soul Asylum was there. Definitely went to that. So there were a few that I remember, but no, I wasn't a big concerts guy.

Morgan Smith: Yeah, so then how did you kind of meet Georgia or get involved in the Georgia Dentel situation? I know that that was a big kind of theme throughout, especially the second half of your college career and working in SGA, yeah.

Rob Killion: Well, I definitely never met her because no one ever met her, which is part of the challenge. But, so I- I became an SGA senator the second semester of my first year. And then I was on the SGA cabinet my second year. And then, so because I was on the SGA cabinet my second year at Grinnell, I definitely was aware. I wasn't in the middle of it, but I was aware that there were sort of long-standing frustrations with the SGA cabinet regarding student- student engagement in concerts and films both, but particularly concerts. There was just concern that in a- in a- at a place like Grinnell where we take student self governance very seriously, that it really it didn't appear to be possible for the student concerts committee to really be in the driver's seat for scheduling concerts. So that was my sophomore year. So I was just, I was sort of present at SGA Cabinet meetings where I would see this frustration and discussion bubbling up one way or the other. And then my- at the end of my sophomore year, I was elected to be vice president. At that time, there was only one vice president for the following year. And as I, as I mentioned in- earlier off camera, it had come to a head at the end of that year where the outgoing President and Vice President and the incoming President and Vice President and all of the sitting cabinet were pretty much on the same page after several years of frustration and continuous churn. Part of the problem is because, as you know, SGA churns so much and that by the time it's very hard to get enough institutional memory that by the time you're ready to act on something, your term's up and then the clock resets. And so we felt like we were at a critical moment where everybody was on the same page, the incoming people, the outgoing people, the cabinet, to really talk to the administration about getting more student leadership in concert booking and selection.

Morgan Smith: Yeah, so then that process outside of SGA, what was kind of campus opinion of Georgia during your time at Grinnell or on SGA? Both, before she was kind of take- she was moved away from taking a role more in student bookings and after.

Rob Killion: Well, I'll do my best to remember. It's a long time ago at this point. But my general sense is that I mean, most of the campus was pretty oblivious to how the sausage got made, who was- who was selecting concerts, who was booking concerts. I think that people who are really music people and were really into the Grinnell concert scene probably knew who she was, and probably were pretty impressed with her because she definitely had a fantastic track record of bringing some, you know, some great people to campus, some people who were on the cusp of you know, on the cusp of being big, and she got them right on-. So, I think the people who really knew, knew probably knew who she was and were impressed by her. And for obvious reasons, she really had, you know, she had she done a, you know, she'd done some amazing things with who she had brought to campus. But, but, so, but to wrap that up, yeah, I think probably most people had no idea, you know, who did what.

Morgan Smith: Did that, was that something that kind of changed as she kind of took a role within like discourse around SGA elections. I know that in some of our kind of archival research, looking at the S&B and looking at your former SGA files in the archives. It seems like that was something that came up like during elections and running and stuff. Was that something that then kind of changed as that happened? Or did it still say kind of as a back burner issue?

Rob Killion: You know, I really have no memory of that. So, I mean, you tell me, did it come up in the elections? Did it was reported in the S&B that it came up?

Morgan Smith: I mean, I believe it was in the President's stuff when you were running for VP, and then I think also in some of your VP materials. That was like, you know, one of the topics of my candidate statements, I mentioned it. I think so, yeah. Like dealing with the Georgia Dentel situation, essentially. That was like, you know-

Rob Killion: In one of the topics of my candidate statements, I mentioned it?

Morgan Smith: I think so, yeah. Like dealing with the Georgia Dentel situation, essentially.

Rob Killion: Yeah, I, you know, I true- you're jogging my memory because I really, I can't, I don't really have a great memory of how much of this was public and how much of it wasn't. So it sounds like at least around the election time, the issue of concerts and booking concerts and maybe even her name did come up. So I believe it. I just don't have a strong memory of it.

Morgan Smith: Yeah, that's absolutely fine. What did kind of the concerts and film scene on campus look like after Georgia took a back seat in the process of like booking concerts and finding concerts people and such. How did that kind of change and evolve?

Rob Killion: Right. So after George Drake reassigned Georgia to doing faculty event bookings, they allocated funds for- so there a couple of things happened on our end, on the student government end, we create a new cabinet position called the ACE Coordinator, the off-campus events coordinator. Does that still exist- Did that ring a bell?

Morgan Smith: It rings a bell because it was recently gotten rid of, actually.

Rob Killion: Oh, well, there you go. Well, it lasted for 30 years. But yeah, so we created the ACE coordinator as a cabinet position, and essentially they worked with the student, the films committee chair and the concerts committee chair. So, this was a new position to be a cabinet level to link us to the committees to make sure the committees were in charge and actually fully engaged. And then on the administration side, they hired, I don't remember what the name of the position was, but Steve Bialek was the first person who did bookings on the student side instead of Georgia. I don't know how it's handled now, but at the time there were seven- they were called RAs. They were adult professionals who lived in every other dorm. There were seven of them. And in addition to living in the dorms, they had like a second gig. And Steve Bialek, I think he was one of the seven RAs, and this was his like second gig. He had been an RA, and then they hired him to do this as his full-time job, moving away from that. It was one of the two, I don't remember. But so he did the bookings. And the films and concert chairs with their full committees engaged set the agenda for like what they wanted the, you know, the theme of the year to be in terms of concerts in particular, and took it from there. So Sam Perlman was the first uh, concerts chair under the new system and uh um I'm sorry. I'm apologizing to him if he's watching this. It'll come to me in a second through the Films Committee. Scott Bernberg. Scott Bernberg, who's the first Films Committee chair under the new system. And I remember, gosh, I should have looked this up before we got in the [undeciperable] being pretty impressed by who they brought to campus. In fact, I think a tribe called Quest was that year, my junior year. Anyway, yeah, my sense is that people were pretty happy and didn't see a decline in quality or anything like that.

Morgan Smith: Yeah. Um so I know that sh Georgia kind of moved towards faculty bookings, but it seems like maybe she still like occasionally collaborated with like the concerts committee. As a consultant and stuff. Do you know what her kind of role in concerts looked like after she was mostly taking off of student bookings? What did that process look like? Was she still involved? Were there any like roadblocks or issues along the way? What did that process look like?

Rob Killion: You know, I don't have a lot of strong memories of that. I know that there was no ill will towards Georgia among any of us. Either on student government or the new chairs of the Concerts or Films Committee, or Steve Bialek, who was doing student bookings. You know, now they can jog my memory. I do remember Steve Bialek, incredibly nice guy, by the way. And I'm sure he was very gracious in the transition process. I do remember him talking to me about having conversations with Georgia. Maybe just comparing notes. I didn't have a sense that she was- not super involved, but maybe she was. But but I remember it was cordial and I do remember now him saying that she would chat with him. She was she was, you may have had other people mention this. She really, really was a talker. And so she, she spent probably most of her waking hours on the phone. And she loved talking to people. And if she got you on the phone, you were going to be on the phone for a while. And so I do remember Steve commenting on that.

Morgan Smith: Yeah. Is there any other memories that you have of like How that process played out with Georgia of her moving towards faculty bookings, any interactions that you had or heard about of both how that process worked for SGA, like did it go pretty smoothly, that transition? Or how did that work? Because it sounds like there was this was building for a while. And so I'm curious once there finally was that push with George Drake to say, all right, we're moving Georgia only to faculty bushing- bookings. Kind of what was the reaction to that? Was that kind of the end of it? Or was there continued like conversations and things going on there?

Rob Killion: You know, it really was. Once it was done, it was really done. And it wasn't, it was pretty. I don't want to don't want to say easy because it was sort of traumatic for everyone involved. Certainly for her, I'm sure, but you know, for everyone. But once it was done, It seemed to be relatively smooth. Money doesn't solve every problem, but money can solve a lot of problems. Her salary, you know, her salary remained the same. I think she got a prob- maybe a little bit of a boost in the faculty budget to give her a little bit more money to play with. We got someone hired full-time to help us. You know, I think that helped everything. You know, the hard, hard stuff was just a proceeding. And, you know, it was, as I mentioned before, the challenge was not anything to do with her reputation for booking great acts. She seemed fantastic at it. It was just, you know, even 30 years ago, 50 years ago, whatever, Grinnell has just been, you know, Grinnell students have really jealously guarded their self-governance. And it just had become a problem that students students mostly weren't involved with scheduling their own concert series. And definitely the concerts committee was zero involvement, but the concerts chair, sometimes if there was a good connection, they'd have some decent input. But a lot of the times they were sort of rubber stamping as well. And as I mentioned off camera, it was Georgia couldn't attend Georgia couldn't be on campus and she couldn't attend committee meetings with students present. And back in the day, it was just, you know, if you pick up the phone, only one person could be on the other end of the phone, and that one person was the concerts committee chair. And that was, you know, they had some input, but otherwise she booked and just became- just became too much of an issue. But once it happened, once the change happened. It seemed relatively smooth, and I hope she felt treated well and respected. I think she did, but who knows?

Morgan Smith: Yeah. Yeah, it's actually it's good to hear you know that her salary kind of stayed the same and all there, because part of the goal of this project is, of course to kind of fill the gaps in the archives, because there is a lot of them when it comes to Georgia and her involvement on campus. I'd love to hear more about kind of how that meeting with George Drake went. Because I know you mentioned in the materials that you sent us beforehand that it was just you there because the outgoing folks kind of were having some second thoughts. And so everybody was there kind of trying to convince I think it was the outgoing president. The no, this is what we want to do. And so you had said it was just you there. So, how did that meeting kind of play out? What did that look like?

Rob Killion: Yeah. Right. So as I had sort of alluded to earlier, we really felt like if something was going to change. This was a special moment in time where we could make it happen because the new people were in, the old people were still there, the cabinet was on board. If we didn't do it now, we were just going to reset the clock for another year, and it would never be a never-ending cycle. So the plan was, I think this was, this would have been late April after spring break and after the student government elections. The plan was for the four of us, the two, the president, president-elect, vice president, vice president-elect to go to, there was a standing weekly meeting. Between the SGA president and vice president and George Drake. So all four of us were going to go to the standing weekly meeting and just say, you know. This is an untenable situation with students not being engaged in their own concerts selection. We're going to take over booking next year so the concerts committee can be in charge. If you can hire someone to help to do this, do the bookings, great. But if you can't, we're still going to do it because it's time. But that was the plan. I showed up as the most junior of the four of us and nobody else was there. And we were 15 minutes into the hour, and nobody else was there. So I didn't know what was happening. So I just gave George Drake that message, and he- he heard it and asked some questions. And he was familiar with the situation. And I left, and the meeting came to an end, our hour came to an end, and he said he would get back to us. And I went back to the student government offices, and yeah, I was updated. Learned that one of them was having some cold feet about: do we really want to do this? Should we talk about it more? But it was, yeah, it was the outgoing president. But it was done. I had delivered the message, and relatively soon thereafter, I don't know if it was a day or a week. Or even a month, but it you know, before the end of the semester, um, we George uh uh let us know that what I told you, that he would be reassigning Georgia to faculty bookings, faculty concerts and faculty film series. Her title would slange change slightly, but not her salary wouldn't be affected. And I think he gave them a little bit of a boost for their own concert, the faculty concert series. And then he, you know, hired a staff member for us. And he did that out of presidential discretionary funds. So, God bless the Presidential Discretionary Fund because it really. I just read something, I can't even remember what it was for, but I think it was for the Grinnell Singers a year ago, the Grinnell singers were short money for their travel, and there was a discretionary. Anyway. The discretionary fund has existed for decades, and it really saved us. George Drake saved us in the late eighties with it. And that's what happened. I can't remember. Did I leave any details? Did that?

Morgan Smith: That sounds like most of the details that you sent us previously in that message you sent previously. That sounds like most of the details that you sent us previously in that message you sent previously. You had also mentioned having some kind of tense interactions with folks who are supporters of Georgia. I believe you mentioned a visiting professor of psychology who was also a former alum and concerts chair. How did those play out and what did that look like?

Rob Killion: Yeah, these are all, again, very vague memories, but my vague recollection all during my second year at Grinnell when I was on SGA cabinet and things were continuing to build with us trying to get a resolution to getting students more engaged in concerts that and wanting to either have Georgia participate in concerts committee meetings? Or if she couldn't, and realistically, she probably couldn't come to campus and do that, having someone else who could. As that became more and more of a dominant discussion. Yeah, so it must have been public if people knew. Yeah, so now, yeah, it must have been in the S&B if people knew. But I do remember that there were alums who had been in go yeah, I think I think former student concert chairs. And there was one student, former concerts chair who was a visiting professor on campus at the time, but there were others not on campus. Who, yeah, I remember being, I remember being very angry about it. And I don't, how were they? We must have gotten phone calls. The president and vice president of SGA must have. But I do think that there were people like calling each other. Off campus and saying, "Hey, I think, you know, you know, we've got to defend Georgia." And we were hearing about that in one way or another, probably phone calls and probably from the professor on campus. You know, looking back, you know, as a, you know, as a, I was an adult then, obviously, as a whatever, a 20 or 21 year old, but as an adult adult, decades later. You know, I probably would have felt the same way, you know, if I had really had, you know, wonderful memories of the great concerts she had booked and feeling like maybe she was getting slighted by these young people who didn't know or appreciate what she had done for the college, I probably would have, you know, been a little pissed off myself. So I, you know. With the perspective of time, I get it. But yeah, I definitely remember some people some alums being upset that there was any discussion of Georgia. Having a changing role on campus. And again, I'll emphasize that she didn't need to. None of this had to happen if she were able to engage with the concerts committee and let them be part of the creative process, talking about some themes for the semester and what kinds of acts they wanted and what kind of mix they wanted and what the options were. But it wasn't I don't know when it last... I don't know when she last was able to do that, but those years were long gone by the time we arrived on campus in the late 80s.

Morgan Smith: Yeah, um yeah, definitely. I remember there was a at least one letter in the S&B to that effect. Speaking of the S&B though, it was mentioned at one point that you and I think some other folks in SGA at some point had taken a trip to I believe it was either Iowa State or University of Iowa and then Cornell College to kind of talk to them about their concerts programs and compare notes. I'd love to hear more about that. If you remember like what that looked like, what kind of role it played in this process.

Rob Killion: I had 100% forgotten that happened. I remember now that you say it, I totally remember that we, we really tried to do our due diligence. Like, are we crazy that students aren't able to be involved in this concerts process? So I remember this now. We really tried to research this. We did go to, I remember Iowa State. I hadn't remembered Cornell College. Is that where we were?

Morgan Smith: I believe so. I believe that was mentioned.

I don't remember.

Rob Killion: I don't I'm sure I'm sure it happened. I don't remember that, but I do remember going to ISU, which is of course a But yeah, I don't have strong memories of it other than we did it, and I didn't remember that until you said it. Yeah.

Morgan Smith: Yeah. In that case, kind of moving towards wrapping up then, how do you think like campus culture overall changed during your time at Grinnell? Like I'm going into my senior year, you know, and it's definitely a little bit of a different base when I got here. So how did that kind of change and evolve over your time at Grinnell?

Rob Killion: Speak easy. That's what the black student, the black student sort of let's talk about microaggressions open forum was. It's called the Speakeasy. Anyway, that's from the original conversation. I would say my memories of, I mean, Late 80s, I mean, God, Reagan was president. I mean, it's hard to, I mean, so my memories of that period of the big turning issues on campus. The change in alcohol affected everything. Not just the relays, but the fact that all campus parties, suddenly you have student, you know, student security checking IDs, and it was people hated it. That was so the change in alcohol policy and culture. Adjusting to that, that was huge. I was a non-drinker, so it didn't affect me, but it was, it roiled the campus long time, multi-years. The heart of the Reagan administration and everything that meant to America that was that consumed America consumed the political life of the campus. Forefront of at the time what we would call at the at the time was probably called gay rights. That was before started adding a lot of letters to it, but at the time, getting the, the AIDS pandemic or the AIDS epidemic was terrible and dominating the news and campus discussion. Gay visibility and gay rights and were were a huge part of campus culture getting the- What was it called? I think it was initially called the GCGC Grinnell College Gay Community. That was the gay community.

Morgan Smith: Yeah, the Grinnell College Gay Community. And then I believe later it was, the acronym I think was GLGA.

Rob Killion: GCGC, then GLGA, and then and then the and then the resource center came. And at first it was the Human Resource... Gay and Human Resource Center, which really pissed people off. And then it was, yeah, anyway, so all of that. And then, of course, and then the and then- the like I mentioned, the Blacks on campus at Speakeasy was a huge moment, a huge, huge, huge cultural impact on the college. It was really one of my most meaningful experiences there. It wasn't just that one night. It had repercussions after that. Follow-ons after that. So, yeah, I would say, yeah, Reagan administration, gay rights, black visibility, and the alcohol policy were really consuming the campus during the late eighties.

Morgan Smith: Yeah. Your mention of gay rights actually makes me think of I study queer history of the college, but makes me think of Jim TeDerman as well and I know that he had some involvement in kind of the Georgia situation. Then also another name that came up a lot during our archival research on Georgia during your time. Was Professor Colin Sachs, who seemed like they were both really involved. I'd love to hear more about kind of their role within the process as well as how they work with SGA in general. If you have any memories about that.

Rob Killion: Yeah, so Jim Tederman, fantastic guy, dean of students for a lot of years, he was not there when Georgia, when this transitioned out, transitioned to her faculty role. But he um I I believe that he more than anyone um is at least on the administration side was responsible for the Grinnell ethic of student self-governance. He came in. So, you know, Grinnell was a pretty traditional place through most of the 60s, until the late 60s. When all hell broke loose. And then by the time Jim joined, my understanding is by the time Jim joined in the early to mid 70s. He really put in place, you know, these are adults who should be self-governing. And he put in place that culture that still exists to this day. I'd love somebody to do a deep dive on Jim Tederman. But Jim left for Reed College, I think, after my first year. And Tom Crady who had been in the office but promoted to replace Jim. Tom was the Dean of Students when the Georgia Dentel transit I think when the Georgia Dentel transition happened. But you tell me, am I wrong?

Morgan Smith: Is it that sounds right, yeah. I think that Jim was involved earlier on with Georgia?

Rob Killion: Well, like I said, it was it was a multi, multi, multi-year process that never got resolved because SGA people kept graduating and so it would kept keep re resetting. But yeah, I'm yeah, yeah, I'm sure Jim was in the thick of it. Yeah. Colin, was was Colin the the visiting professor of psychology?

Morgan Smith: Colin, I believe, came up in a lot of your communications about Georgia that we now have in the archives.

Rob Killion: Were these in my vaccine?

Morgan Smith: Also, yeah, in your your emails, um it didn't seem like Colin was um opposed to um kind of reducing Georgia's role. It seemed like he was kind of on your side on the things. And I was curious if you remember kind of what his role was in things.

Rob Killion: No, you know, I remember the name Colin Sachs, but Colin, if you're watching this video, at some point, I'm sorry, it's telling me

Morgan Smith: I feel like he might have been a professor of English, but I cannot be quoted on that one.

Rob Killion: I think Colin Sachs was the visiting professor. Maybe it wasn't psychology. Maybe it was English. But I think Colin was the visiting professor who I think had been a former concerts chair and I think was very concerned about the whole, you know, if SGA was being, you know, fair to Georgia and appreciative of Georgia. But maybe I'm confusing, I'm maybe inflating that. But if I'm correct, and if that's who Colin was, then yeah, I I my memory is that he was yeah, just very, you know, very, very- he wanted to make sure that we, you know, who were relatively new to campus, knew her long history with the college and weren't, weren't walking away from that without having the full picture of you know her history um uh but yeah, so if Colin was that professor, if they are the same person, that is my memory.

Morgan Smith: Okay. Thank you. Is there anything else that you'd kind of like to share with us that we haven't covered so far in the interview as we're kind of wrapping up? Any of our important details. We think.

Rob Killion: I think we covered the bases. I can certainly give you the names of the last Concerts chair before the last concert. And you have the name of the first one after the change, which is Sam Perlman. The first ACE coordinator has passed. Unfortunately, he's gone. And I hope Steve Bialik is still around. But in terms of me, yeah, I think we've covered all the bases. Did Georgia continue booking for the faculty for I believe so, yes.

Morgan Smith: She continued doing faculty bookings and then also, I believe it was on Thursday, a film series. Up until she retired in 2001. So she did retire.

Rob Killion: I wondered if maybe she did this to the end of her life, but she did retire.

Morgan Smith: Yeah, she retired in 2001.

Rob Killion: And when did she pass?

Morgan Smith: I don't recall off the top of my head. I believe it was sometime around the twenty tens, twenty eighteen, I'm being told by my colleague down below.

Rob Killion: She lived until 2018.

Wow.

Morgan Smith: Wow.

Rob Killion: Okay. That, wow, okay. You know, that's the thing about, you know, looking back at that period of time in my life, an awesome period of time in my life. Overall, you know, everyone seemed much older. And so I would have, you know. I'm delighted that Wayne Moyer is still there and involved in the in the in the new relays. I'm shocked, but that's fantastic. And I'm that Georgia lived to 2018. Wow. I think maybe they were only in their 40s or, you know, maybe they were only in their 40s at the time. And I thought they were like, Lord knows what I thought, 70s or something. But yeah, okay, that's good to know. I think that's everything. I think that's everything.

Morgan Smith: Great.

I will stop the recording then, real quick.

Rob Killion: Okay, sounds good.