Georgia Dentel and Grinnell Concerts History, 1960-2001 - Interviews

Miles Brown: Looks like we're good to go. Okay. I'm here with Dan Meltzer, and we're doing an oral history interview on behalf of the Georgia Dentel and Grinnell Concerts 20th Century Music Concert. So first, Thank you so much for being here, Mr. Meltzer. I'll just have a couple of questions. I guess the first one is kind of what inspired you to come to Grinnell? Do you have like some early memories of Grinnell and coming there?

Dan Meltzer: Oh, gosh. Yeah, a couple of people from my high school one guy from my high school went there. I wanted to go to a small liberal arts college. I applied to Grinnell, and I think Oberlin and I was waitlisted at Oberlin. So I said, "well, I'll just go to Grinnell." I went to Grinnell in the spring of 73 to visit and I really liked it.I just felt at home right away. Felt very comfortable, and they gave me the most money. So I decided to go there.

Brown: Yeah, I totally get that as the inspiration. Kind of following more background, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from originally, what kind of where your interests are heading into Grinnell as well?

Meltzer: Sure, sure. I was raised in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Born in Maine. My family's all from Maine and New York, but we we we ended up in in Wisconsin in the like 1960, I think, 59, 60. And so I'm a proud you know, uh Badger, I suppose. Uh happy to happy to claim Wisconsin is where I'm from. Although I haven't lived there since, you know, the seventies. And, you know, I I I ended up going to Grinnell not with any, you know, back then many of us went to college without a plan. We just went to college because that's what you did.

Brown: As a history major, I can get not having a play, especially immediately after college at least. So so I can relate there. So you you go to rural Iowa. Were you immediately interested in the Grinnell music scene? Or was that kind of something that you slowly took to?

Meltzer: Well, I was a mu I was always interested in music. I mean, I loved, you know, I was a guy in high school who liked, you know, kind of found bands and found musicians that my friends then said, "Well, the Dan says 'they're good, then it must be.'" So I say that with my ego up front, but it's it's kind of true. I was so I was always interested in that. And I was interested let's see. I think I became a DJ at that time, it was called, "KDIC." I don't know if it still is. College radio station. We used to spin those, what were they called? Albums. We spun albums. And so that was that was that was fun. I had a show. I don't remember what time or day it was or what day of the week, but it was I had like a four-hour, four, three or four hour radio program. That I did. Was I a freshman, sophomore? I can't remember. But that put me in touch with the music, whatever music scene there was at Grinnell. And then, oops, sorry. And then we went from there. Actually, I then got involved with the concerts. I think, as I recall, it was Because our friend Will Collins, or my friend Will Collins, became the president of the Student Government Association and asked if I would take on that responsibility with Carlson.

Brown: We just got KDIC up and running again since the Pandemic. So it's funny that you mentioned that.

Meltzer: Oh, good.

Brrown: Yeah.

Meltzer: It was uh, it was uh ten watts of ten watts of screaming power across across campus.

Brown: Yeah. It's it's I don't I don't know if it's as big as it was in the seventies, but it's it's slowly coming back. I think people really like the kind of communal feel of the radio show, so that's great. Kind of on the music department, do you have any just I guess kind of going to Grinnell, any mem obviously Bruce Springsteen, but before that, do you have some of the early concert memories of like some of the first concerts you've seen or great performances?

Meltzer: Yeah, I remember uh a few. I think I remember uh the jazz guitarist Larry Coryel played at uh played in um in Darby. Uh Little Feet played there and that that was great. And let's see. I think Little Feet played there. I'm pretty sure I remember that. I think it was at Grinnell. What else? New Rhythm and Blue. Not much else. I don't remember. Oh, Stanley Cowell, maybe a few jazz, a few jazz concerts, but that's about it.

Brown: That's fair. And then you become Concerts Chair. And are you initially Co-Concert Chair with Carlson Smith? Or is that single? Okay.

Meltzer: No, no, we took on responsibility together. And he was a year ahead of me. I was a sophomore. It was the end of my sophomore year. And Carlson was a junior. So I think we took it on for the academic year 75, 76, but we started doing things at the end of the semester in 1975.

Brown: Now I've talked with a number of concert shares from the sixties to nineties for this project. And so some have talked about coming into Concert Chair role with kind of a set mission of changing the program. Others were trying to maintain what they saw. Or were you pretty satisfied with how concerts were going?

Melttzer: I- I- One thing. I and I don't remember being interested in shaking anything up or changing the way it was done. I was I was pretty much solely interested in bringing the best music we could bring. For the for the best uh for the best um dollars we could we Music. I wasn't, you know, saying I want to take over concerts. I want to I want to, you know, get rid of anybody or, you know. Fire Georgia or make Georgia a lifetime appointment. I wasn't interested in that. I was interested in just in the music and bringing what I thought was going to be the best concerts and and musicians that we could afford.

Brown: Now, you know, each Concert Chair their relationship with Georgia and how they worked with her. Obviously, varied. Were you constantly interacting with her in-person, on the phone? Were you interacting with her a great amount? Like, how much was she a part of your booking of concerts?

Meltzer: Well, certainly she was key to making making the you know doing the adult stuff that we needed done. You know, contacting contacting uh agents and working working on contracts. Those those are not things that as a as a college junior or and uh I was I was, you know, empowered to do or even wanted to do. Carlson may have had more to do with that. don't, I wish. By the way, were you able to find him, or you haven't been able to find him?

Brown: Yeah, we we plan to reach out to a number of people, but he's on the list for Concert Chairs. We have his contact information.

Meltzer: Oh, great. Oh, you do? Great. Great. So, so, yeah, I was he may have he may have worked with her. You know, sometimes he expressed. Some frustration with working with Georgia. She was quirky. I mean, Georgia was she I don't know yeah, I don't know how much you know about her, but I'm I'm sure you've heard about her quirks. And she was, you know, she was definitely a quirky, unique person. But in the long run, she was very interested in pursuing pretty aggressively the things that we wanted to do.

Brown: Now, at this time period, did you interact with Georgia at all in-person? Or was it, I know by at least the 80s, it's completely by telephone, people interact with her. Do you remember seeing her on campus?

Meltzer: I wish I could remember that, Miles. I don't honestly, I don't think I remember talking to her in-person that much. I remember seeing she was around a little bit. But do I remember do I remember sitting down and seeing her? I just I don't remember. I might have, you know, we might have, but to be honest with you, it's been an awfully long time and I can't remember how our how how our interactions went, whether it was by phone or by or in-person. I can tell you this, it wasn't by email.

Brown: I can imagine why. I guess kind of pivoting. To a different subject, booking concerts and your kind of memories with that. I mean, I mean, the number one, kind of our most famous concert ever, Bruce Springsteen. Can you kind of talk me through that process, getting him, him being here? Uh, I have a couple questions on this, as you can imagine.

Meltzer: So, yeah, sure, sure. Uh, I well, I will tell you that my that was my uh my goal from the beginning. And I started listening to him. I have to give my brother Richard credit. He's my older brother, and he.... he bought Bruce Springstein's first album based on probably a Rolling Stone magazine review. And then we, you know, I bought that and and the second album before getting to Grinnell. And so I was a big fan. I was pumping it up before that, having people listening. Even people from New Jersey, I was like, you don't know who this guy is. He's great, you know. You have to listen to them. And, you know, so that was that was always my goal for the big Fall concert. And told Georgia that early on, that's who we wanted to pursue. Now, I don't remember how it went exactly. Did Georgia know someone? I think Georgia knew somebody, or she was, but she got on it right away. Called. I've I've read places where Georgia it was Georgia's idea. I don't think it was Georgia's idea, but you know, I may be misremembering history, but that's you know, I can tell you that Carlson and I areed that that would be a that would be a good show. He wasn't as much of a fan. So and then so so we sort of um bowed to one another's wishes. We worked together very well. We were friends besides being co-Chairs. And so that was that was before I left Grinnell for the s- for the for the summer, I think we were hell, I think Georgia had already like either she had either nailed it down or she was nailing it down. In in seven in the s- what summer of seventy five? Spring of seventy five.

Brown: Okay, so you have this idea for Springsteen. She's able to able to get Springsteen. The process of getting a concert venue ready and kind of putting that together wasn't in the normal Forum, right? Or Gardener. It happened, I believe, at Darby Gym. Is that correct?

Meltzer: Yeah, it was definitely Darby Gym. And it was, I mean, yeah, it did kind of get big. I mean, for as big as somebody you get. And we were a little surprised. You know, they were. Before the band even got there with the stuff, it's calling the papers, some newspapers were calling from Chicago. You know, we got whether the Tribune or the Sun-Times to send someone to review the, you know, did they could they attend? And because again, at that time, all you needed to go to the concert was you would go to the Forum And get a ticket, just you know, a paper ticket that one per student that checked your name off. It was very, you know, it's a long time ago. So, you, and that was it. I mean, I don't know if anybody actually has their paper ticket. But we just that's what it was. It was it was it was a you know like a pink ticket from from an eight by eight and a half by eleven, you know, you just make a ticket book. And then we had to have security. So I hired security, and I'm sure you can imagine how sophisticated that was. I had friends from Kenosha come down. Who were going to Madison at the time, and they hitchhiked from Madison. So, my so my brother, who was living in Wisconsin at the time, and a bunch of my high school friends who were at Madison. Hitchhiked to Grinnell and they were we we put them on security so they could see the show and they could uh you know we could cover security. Pretty informal.

Brown: Yeah, pretty informal, especially considering he's on the cover of Time magazine a week later. I mean, to go from that.

Meltzer: Yeah, that was the daily double of how cool is this. We were. Since September 20th, and I think it was October that he was undercover at Time in Newsweek. And so we were, you know, we were golden. We were. And the show was what everybody said it was. I mean, you know, I have seen over the years many, many, many recollections of it. And it was all that. I mean, I did go back, I introduced the band, I remember that. And I went back into the, I think it might have been, it was a locker room. The band was in the locker room, and Bruce was sitting on a chair eating a banana. And I said, introduce myself. And he was, you know, he was very low-key. And I said, "So I'm going to introduce you guys. How do you want to be introduced?" And he said, All he said was, "Just tell'em we're from New Jersey." I said, "Okay, well, I'll make sure I mention that." I mean, it was the stage was there and the lights were set. Instruments were laid out, and uh I I have a very clear reco- recollection of uh of uh stage lights kind of ricocheting off the saxophones and couldn't see a thing in the crowd .And I thought, "Well, this is a Rock and Roll show." That's what this is. And that was, you know, introduced the band and they blew the roof off to join. It was, it was, it was, it was that.

Brown: Yeah, that's kind of insane. I mean, I was here this summer and you come for like alumni weekend and people are so talking about it. Like..

Melzter: Oh, oh, it's yeah. I do wonder. On some level, you know, people who swear they were at this game or that game, you know. Oh, I saw, you know, I'm sure there were people that night who didn't go to the concert. I never heard of this guy, I want to go. And then, but of course, now they'll say, "Oh, I was there, I was at the third row." But yeah, it was fun. I mean, they the band the band kind of hung out in the, you know, before the show. And I remember they played, oh, it's very cool.They played, I think he played "Quarter to Three," which is an old an old big time swinging number that they warmed up with, or they did a sound check with. And then the band came in and it was very cute. Funny because that authentic Grinnell stuff. It came in with Grinnell hats and Grinnell Grinnell shirts, and except they had gone to a sports store downtown, and it was all Grinnell High School. So we're like, "Well, okay, Tigers, Pioneers, what's the difference?" It said "Grinnell."

Brown: Now, so I guess I guess kind of on on the performance itself, um, your interactions with the Boss and the E Street band, do you remember talking to them? Like you you talked to them the one time, but were you facilitating meals at all, transportation? Or did they kind of have their own thing?

Meltzer: We did that with every other group. They took care of everything themselves. We certainly asked. I mean, we were, frankly, Carlson and I were very excited about picking them up at the airport. And driving them to dinner or wherever they wanted to go. But they weren't doing that. So I think they they took they got their own meals. They stayed out at a hotel out by the by the by the airport. I mean by the interstate. Well, it is by the airport, I guess. And but no, they were self-sufficient. They didn't, you know. So lots of other bands we did that with, but and performers, but but Bruce was like, you know, the band was, like I said, they were self-sufficient. I think there were people trying to get, you know, invite him to there's all kinds of stories. People trying to get him to come to dinner after the show. You know, we invited him to our house. You know, we were trying to get him to come, you know, all that. We left them alone. I mean, they clearly said they were fine. And they went around town, like I said, they went around town on their own. They went downtown. They got some Grinnell stuff. Grinnell High School stuff. And but Bruce was, you know, he was certainly very polite and a nice guy. And but they were, like I said, I mean, they were really professional. Those guys were. They knew what they were doing and they were there to do a job.

Brown: Yeah, no, I think getting them to rural Iowa in the first place is a pretty big victory. So...

Meltzer: Yeah, that's you know, that's it in retrospect, of course, when you look somebody pointed this out to me once, and I thought it was pretty funny. If you go to i if you go to the Bruce Springsteen Wikipedia page. Which is very long, but there's a big big artists have among the categories is concert tours or tour dates or something. And it will list the venue and the city and the date. And so if you go to 1975, it's there. It's 1975. And it's like Dallas. Houston, Oklahoma City, Grinnell, Minneapolis, Chicago. It's like, which doesn't belong and why? It's very funny.

Brown: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's kind of phenomenal. So you you have this performance, and do you have any other major memories? I mean, I mean, that alone is incredible, but any other memorable concert moments or Interactions with bands that you kind of remember were concerts that you really enjoyed?

Meltzer: Oh, besides Bruce? Oh, yeah, absolutely. We had, yeah, oh, yeah. Let's see. We went to dinner. Our jazz guys were, we did very well with jazz. We had Charles Mingus and we had Rahsaan Roland Kirk. And we took we got Roland Kirk from the airport and we took him to dinner. I don't know if it's still out there, but there was a place called "BJ's." It was a restaurant out at the golf course. And that was the fancy place in town, just outside of town there, at the Oakland Acres Golf Course. And so and Roland Kirk was very funny. He was quite quite weird but very funny and you know just I had a girlfriend at the time named Mary and he sat across from her going "Mary." He's just can't. And kind of freaking her. And he's blind, so he can't see her, but he's just repeating it. And she's like, and she's. You know, so that was kind of cute. And he was uh and the band they both played. No, wait, he played Roland Kirk played the the shows in the uh in Roberts. And his, I remember his piano player was like down in the basement, Hilton Ruiz was his name, down in the basement of Roberts smoking like a lot of weed. And Roland Kirk going down, and we had to go. We couldn't find him. So Kirk said, "Where's the bathroom?" So, we went and found him in the bathroom. And all Roland Kirk said was, "Remember the gig, remember the gig." And it's like, take it easy there. That and Charles Mingus, and I had actually gone home. For a friend's wedding. And Carlson told me that Mingus outside of the Forum bent down and picked up a little bit of dirt and ate it. And Carlson said, "Huh?" And Mingus said, "I like to ingest the Earth wherever I play." So, yeah. And so that was a little funny. That was a little weird. And also, we had, we got lucky that year that in the Winter, we had, I don't know if you know, do you know who Steve Goodman is? Steve Goodman was a wrote wrote the song "Good Morning America." Right, the Arlo Guthrie song, and he was a great Chicago musician, played with John Bryne a lot, and so he was he was wonderful. I played two shows. He was a little cranky about how many people from the first show would be at the second show, and why didn't we know that? Well, because, again, here's our concert ticket. system. We just give you a paper ticket and you hand it in, and that's it. But but he was wonderful. He was a great performer. And there was a fellow called "Leon Redbone." Who was also a yeah, these are these are names from the seventies. But uh, we played snooker together. He took we went downtown because uh when we told him there was a snooker table a pool hall with a snooker table. So they actually taught me how to play snooker. I like to play pocket billiards, so I didn't know how to play snooker. So there's a bar called "Links" down on like Fourth Avenue. Anyway, they had four pools. Beyond Redbone taught me how to play snooker. Who else? Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers? Was the other the other band? And we tried to get, as I recall, we couldn't do it, but we were our big our hope was to get either Patti Smith or Roxy Music in the Spring, but we couldn't get them. And that was that was that was pretty much the year. We ended up we ended up, I think, having a pretty good year when you look at the roster of music.

Brown: Yeah, pretty eventful. Not the typical stories you get about Minglis or Kirk normally. So great to have that for the archives. But I guess kind of on one point, the ticketing system. Do you remember ever I think think specifically with the Bruce Springsteen concert, ticketing being an issue or a controversy at all, of like keeping track...

Meltzer: Oh yeah, they didn't people coming from the outside, so you had to have a ticket. I think that might have been, as I recall, and don't don't quote me, but I think it was the first, well, you can quote me, I guess you can. I think that was the first time there actually were tickets. I don't remember having I again, do I remember like walking into other shows before that? No, I don't. But I think that was a big deal because they were they were afraid of like, you know, people from the outside coming from all over and overwhelming the, a cracked security team we put together from my high school class. So I think there might was there private security hired? I can't remember. You'd have to. Carlson might remember that. I don't remember. Carlson also recalls them trying. He though that they were trying to pull out last minute. Like, you know, they wanted, they made some demands, and we just kept meeting their demands. So, you know, we'll need this much electricity. Okay, so we'll get that much electricity. We need this much. Now, now we need more. We need more. Space for a stage, so we we accommodated everything. We made it so they couldn't they couldn't say no.

Brown: Uh no sorry oh no, are you can you hear me?

Meltzer: Yeah,

Brown: Okay, okay, it seems from all the archived material we can see and from the different testimonies we've collected, putting together the Bruce Springsteen Concert was one of the biggest logistical efforts that Grinnell undertook, especially in the seventies. But yeah, no, that that that would sound about right. It's it's also kind of crazy because you know, even now it's rural Iowa. Things are pretty laxed and very laid back. But you go to Grinnell in the 70s, I mean, the recreational pastimes and activities Combined with the music scene there. It's laissez-faire in a way that's, I don't know if it'll ever be repeated again. It's pretty incredible.

Meltzer: Oh, yeah. No, I think it was, you know. It was, it was, you can't, you could, it couldn't happen again only because of just uh, well, just the modern world, and and you know, you can't. Media gets out that somebody like like Bruce Springsteen is there and people were fanatics. They they would come from everywhere. But you know, the fact that we got like interest from the media in Chicago was enough to make people go, "Oh, wow, we got to really clamp this down." But it was fine. It was just fine. Everyone had a good time. There were no, nothing, nothing, nothing untoward happened. But it was, again, I mean, it was a time and place that can't happen again, as far as I can tell.

Brown: So, I guess, kind of heading this end of the interview, do you have? Your big takeaways from Grinnell, you know, either as a Concert Chair or as a student experiencing the music here or just Grinnell in general, do you have like big takeaways, big lessons you've learned you felt from the college?

Meltzer: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I think I got opportunities to do things like that that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I got a wife out of the deal. which is kind of kind of kind of key. And what else? Yeah, I think it was that you the the message was at that time, and I d I hope I think it still sort of feels like it is, which is you can do anything. You can do anything you want. You know, you um It was a very open and nurturing atmosphere. And thinking specifically about Concerts, it's like, you know, where else could I have done something like that when I was 20 years old? No place. There's no place I could have done that. So it was it was quite a it was quite a unique experience that that that small environment allowed me to you know have that experience.

Brown: Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. I'm heading into my fourth and final year at Grinnell. And it's kind of, you know, it really goes by like that in a flash.

Meltzer: Oh absolutely. I tell ya something Miles, So the last 50 years.

Brown: Well, you know, it's funny 'cause I mean the Nebraska album comes out like seven years after after it's performed at Grinnell, and now they're like the fortieth year anniversary They're going to do a like a bio pic of Springsteen.

Meltzer: Already like in the can, buddy, for ready to come out like in November, I guess.

Brown: Yeah. Yeah. It's uh everyone tells me that, like, you know, sooner or later they're going to be interviewing me for my stories. And I'm like, "that's that's way off."

Meltzer: Yeah.

Brown: "and I'll never..." Pushing that way off into the future.

Meltzer: I'm here to tell you, it it goes fast.

Brown: Okay.

Meltzer: Not not for looking back, yes. Looking ahead, of course, no. You can't imagine, like, you know. 2055, 2065, what? You know, but so enjoy it. Enjoy it while you're there.

Brown: Well, thank you very much, Dan. We greatly appreciate this. Do you have any final comments or questions or feedback you'd like to give?

Meltzer: No, I'm glad you're doing it. I think that's great. I think it's because of the uniqueness of the s what the location of the school. It's when you look at a roster of bands and events over the years, it's very impressive that some of the other acts that have shown up. So I'm happier minting it all. Is this something that will be for general consumption, or is there going to be a group of people that will be able to see it? What's the end game of the project?

Brown: Yeah, we have release forms. I believe you signed one, but we can also adjust depending on your comfortability. Making publicly available these interviews and transcripts of these interviews on a public-facing website about Georgia Dentel and the general twentieth century over now, kind of collecting all the different oral histories throughout the decades from 1960 to the early 90s of Grinnell concerts, music, and then Georgia Dentel herself. And we're compiling it with a timeline of all the concerts, the Concerts Chairs, and other things like that.

Meltzer: Okay. I haven't actually sent something. I think I've got something next to my door to send you, whatever release there is. So I'll send that to you guys.

Brown: Okay, great. Yeah, sounds good. I'm going to stop recording right now.